Baptism is necessarily Gospel

BJ Bear

Member
Mark 16:15-16

The command to preach the gospel is immediately followed by whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. As there is no relative pronoun in search of an antecedent believe and baptize [into Christ] go together as a necessary part of the gospel.

In other words, it doesn't say whoever believes this other thing and is baptized will be saved.
 

BJ Bear

Member
Since baptism is gospel it is God's grace to us and for us and not a law to be fulfilled nor a work of man. Consequently the one being baptized is always passive rather active.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Since baptism is gospel it is God's grace to us and for us and not a law to be fulfilled nor a work of man. Consequently the one being baptized is always passive rather active.

Water baptism is dying with Christ. It is how trust is placed in Christ. It is how we deny ourselves and take up our cross. If we don't die with him, we won't live with him. Most refuse to die with him and suppose they can fake it - like Simon Magus did.
 

BJ Bear

Member
Water baptism is dying with Christ. It is how trust is placed in Christ. It is how we deny ourselves and take up our cross. If we don't die with him, we won't live with him. Most refuse to die with him and suppose they can fake it - like Simon Magus did.
John's baptism found its end or goal in the ressurection of Christ. That is why baptism does now save you through the ressurection of Christ.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
John's baptism found its end or goal in the ressurection of Christ. That is why baptism does now save you through the ressurection of Christ.

John's baptism was to unite Israel in preparation for the death of their King, the King of the Jews.

Water baptism is DEATH with Christ - the Cross
Spirit baptism is LIFE with Christ - the Resurrection
 

BJ Bear

Member
John's baptism was to unite Israel in preparation for the death of their King, the King of the Jews.

Water baptism is DEATH with Christ - the Cross
Spirit baptism is LIFE with Christ - the Resurrection
So what do you get out of denying the plain witness of scripture?

I will stick with the plain witness of scripture over story telling. In addition to what has been cited, Luke classes it as Gospel in chapter three. "Luke 3:15-18 Now while the people waited, and all considered in their hearts about John, whether he might be the Christ, John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire; whose winnowing shovel is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His threshing floor, and will gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire." And with many other exhortations he proclaimed the good news to the people." -EMTV
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
So what do you get out of denying the plain witness of scripture?

I didn't deny anything that Scripture says. Your imagination must be running wild.

I will stick with the plain witness of scripture over story telling. In addition to what has been cited, Luke classes it as Gospel in chapter three. "Luke 3:15-18 Now while the people waited, and all considered in their hearts about John, whether he might be the Christ, John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire; whose winnowing shovel is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His threshing floor, and will gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire." And with many other exhortations he proclaimed the good news to the people." -EMTV

You don't seem to have a relevant point. That Scripture only validates what I said.
 

BJ Bear

Member
T
I didn't deny anything that Scripture says. Your imagination must be running wild.



You don't seem to have a relevant point. That Scripture only validates what I said.
That scripture validates the title and the OP. However you choose to characterize your responses you are saying something different.
 
Mark 16:15-16

The command to preach the gospel is immediately followed by whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. As there is no relative pronoun in search of an antecedent believe and baptize [into Christ] go together as a necessary part of the gospel.

In other words, it doesn't say whoever believes this other thing and is baptized will be saved.
Matthew 3:11
I baptize you with water for repentance.But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.


Does Matthew 3:11.
Say water baptism would continue?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Water baptism is dying with Christ. It is how trust is placed in Christ. It is how we deny ourselves and take up our cross. If we don't die with him, we won't live with him. Most refuse to die with him and suppose they can fake it - like Simon Magus did.
Nope - I died with Christ when I Repented on my SIN, and Surrendered to HIM crying out for salvation in FAITH (gifted on the Spot by God (Eph 2:8,9). 4 days later in the evening service at Greenwood Baptist Church in Pasadena, TX, I was baptized in Water, which was done in obedience, and changed Nothing (other than my wet clothes). Salvation is BY FAITH, not by getting wet, and if the one dunked is a Baby, other than being a good photo-op, it's worthless Spiritually
 

BJ Bear

Member
Nope - I died with Christ when I Repented on my SIN, and Surrendered to HIM crying out for salvation in FAITH (gifted on the Spot by God (Eph 2:8,9). 4 days later in the evening service at Greenwood Baptist Church in Pasadena, TX, I was baptized in Water, which was done in obedience, and changed Nothing (other than my wet clothes). Salvation is BY FAITH, not by getting wet, and if the one dunked is a Baby, other than being a good photo-op, it's worthless Spiritually
The Christian faith has always been that the baptism from God is for the forgiveness of sins.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
The Christian faith has always been that the baptism from God is for the forgiveness of sins.
Correction: This or that "variation of Theology" teaches that: "the baptism from God (whatever that is) is for the forgiveness of sins".

And then there's Eph 2:8,9.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Correction: This or that "variation of Theology" teaches that: "the baptism from God (whatever that is) is for the forgiveness of sins".

And then there's Eph 2:8,9.

Ephesians 2:8-9 occurs as a result of water baptism. Water baptism is HOW you put your faith in Christ because water baptism is HOW you die together with Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. If you don't die with him, you can't be raised up into resurrection life together with him, a new creation. Cross comes first, resurrection second. Water baptism is dying with Christ; Spirit baptism is being raised up together with Christ to a new life. Resurrection life with Christ does not precede death with Christ. Jesus died first then rose again. You have it backwards.
 

BJ Bear

Member
Correction: This or that "variation of Theology" teaches that: "the baptism from God (whatever that is) is for the forgiveness of sins".

And then there's Eph 2:8,9.
I don't think I have ever heard John the baptist, Matthew, etc., called a variation of theology before.

There is nothing in Ephesians 2:8-9 that is against or excludes baptism into Christ from that which is to believed.
 
Last edited:
Nope - I died with Christ when I Repented on my SIN, and Surrendered to HIM crying out for salvation in FAITH (gifted on the Spot by God (Eph 2:8,9). 4 days later in the evening service at Greenwood Baptist Church in Pasadena, TX, I was baptized in Water, which was done in obedience, and changed Nothing (other than my wet clothes). Salvation is BY FAITH, not by getting wet, and if the one dunked is a Baby, other than being a good photo-op, it's worthless Spiritually
What would you think if I told you, The only water in salvation is the tears we weep from our repentance..

Question did you cry TEARS when you were saved...?
 
Top