Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Hark

Well-known member
I love that passage of Isaiah, and I agree it is about the Millennium.

But the last verse about the root of Jesse is prophetic to Jesus, and the Gentiles are already resting in Him. I know I am. LOL

Hark, what do you think about these verses? I have a question at the end, for Hark and anyone reading this.

THE BEGINNING OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION:
2 Thes.:
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

There have been many interpretations. What is yours? I'm still trying to figure it all out. In fact, I think I'm going to write a document, a copy and paste of all the scriptures in order to see the chronological sequence of events, because Revelation is not in order.
I agree that Revelation is not in order since the fall of Babylon in details in Revelation 18th chapter was announced in Revelation 14:8 by the second of the 3 angels that sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all on the earth which happened after the rapture regarding the 144,000 virgin men from the earth that makes up Jesus's personal coir that follows Him around wherever He goes in verses 1 thru 5. They are not the only ones raptured, but referring to the ones that got raptured in making up His personal choir.

My take on your reference can be seen at this link The Prophesied Falling Away of the Faith
Here are some I'll start with here because of a question I have at the end of these.

SECOND COMING:
Rev. 19:
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.


DEATH OF ANTICHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET IN LAKE OF FIRE AFTER GREAT TRIBULATION AND BEFORE MILLENNIUM:
Rev. 19:
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

SATAN CAST INTO PIT FOR THE DURATION OF THE 1000 YEAR MILLENNIUM:
Rev. 20:
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

THE SAINTS REIGN WITH CHRIST FOR A 1000 YEARS:
Rev. 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Question: Verse 4 is in two parts. Who makes up those on thrones who judge? Are they only the martyrs during the GT, or do they include the apostles who were martyred and John? And what about the martyrs throughout church history? And what if you were a Christian and did not die a martyr's death?
I would discern with Jesus Christ that at the end of the first sentence in verse 4 was announcing one scene, whereby the second scene starts with "Then I saw.." is referring to another group of saints separate from what was mentioned as sitting on those thrones which I am led to believe are the 24 elders mentioned earlier which came after Jesus had given the warnings to 5 of the 7 churches to repent and the 2 of the 7 churches to hold fast or else. Notice how this below is for John to see the rapture event "come up hither" and the events that are to be following afterwards.

Revelation 4:1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

One could say that it was just referring to John, but John was already there in Heaven and so he was to come up hither to see what was to transpired after giving those warnings & exhortations to the 7 churches to be ready or else risk being left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation with new believers that shall believe in Him after the rapture event.

Only the Lord Jesus Chris can confirm the word to you if that be rightly dividing the word of truth so I trust Him to cause the increase.
 

Johnnybgood

Active member
How does one know whether they have been baptized by the Holy Spirit? What is the evidence of this in their life?
That happens at salvation and a person is forever changed to one who loves Jesus over ones own desires. He is now on the throne of your life and we now live our lives for Him. Behold all things have become new. We are no longer conformed to this world but our minds have been transformed through the work of the Holy Spirit in us and His word.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
I agree that Revelation is not in order since the fall of Babylon in details in Revelation 18th chapter was announced in Revelation 14:8 by the second of the 3 angels that sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all on the earth which happened after the rapture regarding the 144,000 virgin men from the earth that makes up Jesus's personal coir that follows Him around wherever He goes in verses 1 thru 5. They are not the only ones raptured, but referring to the ones that got raptured in making up His personal choir.

My take on your reference can be seen at this link The Prophesied Falling Away of the Faith

I would discern with Jesus Christ that at the end of the first sentence in verse 4 was announcing one scene, whereby the second scene starts with "Then I saw.." is referring to another group of saints separate from what was mentioned as sitting on those thrones which I am led to believe are the 24 elders mentioned earlier which came after Jesus had given the warnings to 5 of the 7 churches to repent and the 2 of the 7 churches to hold fast or else. Notice how this below is for John to see the rapture event "come up hither" and the events that are to be following afterwards.

Revelation 4:1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

One could say that it was just referring to John, but John was already there in Heaven and so he was to come up hither to see what was to transpired after giving those warnings & exhortations to the 7 churches to be ready or else risk being left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation with new believers that shall believe in Him after the rapture event.

Only the Lord Jesus Chris can confirm the word to you if that be rightly dividing the word of truth so I trust Him to cause the increase.

Basing a whole doctrine on one verse to John to see another vision just seems like a stretch. You might be right, and it sure would be nice if you are, because I'll go too! Yay! Though a doctrine that happens 7 years before the second coming when He brings back "those who sleep" (dead), doesn't seem like the alive will be among them.
 

Hark

Well-known member
it’s not physically virgin (of this body) men
Revelation 14:1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Those virgin men were of the earth when they were raptured, as redeemed among men being of the firstfruits as they were virgin physically as in not defiled with women and no guile was found in their mouths for why they were chosen to be His personal choir among the others raptured. The phrase "without fault" is in regards to speaking no guile as it is Christ Jesus & His righteousness that is presenting them as faultless so they cannot glory in the flesh in regards to why they were chosen by Him in being His personal choir. when they were that way by His grace & by His help
 

Hark

Well-known member
Basing a whole doctrine on one verse to John to see another vision just seems like a stretch. You might be right, and it sure would be nice if you are, because I'll go too! Yay!
Even Paul stated that it was possible for him to become a castaway if he indulged in the flesh and risk being overcome by the flesh whereby they do not ask for forgiveness, let alone help not to do that again daily..

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

So we should all trust the Lord Jesus Christ to be our personal Good Shepherd in helping us to lay aside every weight & sin daily to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Though a doctrine that happens 7 years before the second coming when He brings back "those who sleep" (dead), doesn't seem like the alive will be among them.
If you are referring to the scripture how those asleep and those alive will meat Christ Jesus in the air, that is the pre great tribulation rapture event because after the great tribulation when the world's armies are defeated already with Satan in the pit for a thousand years is when Jesus will resurrect the saints that got left behind and new believers that went through the great tribulation.

That means Jesus is on earth before He resurrects those coming out of the great tribulation. They are not meeting Him in the air when He has already touched down on the Mount of Olives to do battle with the world's armies marching against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

So Jesus is returning with the pre great tribulation rapture saints ( O.T. & N.T. ) to do battle with the Lord's armies. Once they are defeated and with Satan in the pit to dwell for a thousand years, then those who went through the great tribulation are resurrected.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

This is like 1 John 3:3 about those looking forward to going to heaven to be with Jesus purifies themselves.
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Yes, I don't believe in OSAS either.

If you are referring to the scripture how those asleep and those alive will meat Christ Jesus in the air, that is the pre great tribulation rapture event because after the great tribulation when the world's armies are defeated already with Satan in the pit for a thousand years is when Jesus will resurrect the saints that got left behind and new believers that went through the great tribulation.

And I take it to mean the rapture is AT the second coming, not the secret rapture you are believing, and would be nice if it were true.

Someone in one of my forums gave me a link to a large document about pre-trib. that I haven't read yet, but did make a print of to read in bed sometime. Just haven't yet.

What I find disturbing that results in you believing a passage has to do with the secret rapture, and I take the same passage to be when every eye shall see Him come in the clouds is if yours is true, why didn't one of the apostles put the difference between the two, or even mention the two in one teaching?

God is not one of confusion.
 

Hark

Well-known member
This is like 1 John 3:3 about those looking forward to going to heaven to be with Jesus purifies themselves.
Not every believer hopes in Him for that when a lot of self help and support groups look to commitments & other things for that help.
Yes, I don't believe in OSAS either.
Not sure how you got that from my comment. I believe in OSAS, but running that race is for discipleship, looking to Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin as we rest in Him that we are saved to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House.

Those found not abiding in Him or still former believers run the risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes but they are still saved as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House. All offenses on that foundation will get burned off, but as they incur a physical death for the wages of sins, their spirit is saved & will be with Him in Heaven when they die because that foundation remains and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere.
And I take it to mean the rapture is AT the second coming, not the secret rapture you are believing, and would be nice if it were true.
The "secret" rapture as coming before the great tribulation is not a secret. Everyone will see Him, that sign of the Son of Man in Heaven, and then the everlasting gospel will be spread by that angel after the rapture and then destruction will come on a third of the earth for why the 3rd angel warns every one of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire. I fathom that the destruction of the third of the earth will send the world in a panic and go into survival mode for why the warning by the 3rd angel is afterwards. So how they respond to the gospel after hearing it, the destruction on a third of the earth, & the temptation to join the NWO so as to make sure they can buy & sell is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth AFTER the rapture.

So it will not be a secret. All will see Him, but I believe after that fiery calamity, most people will be tempted to forget and go into survival mode, even forgetting what the 3rd angel said after that fiery calamity.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Someone in one of my forums gave me a link to a large document about pre-trib. that I haven't read yet, but did make a print of to read in bed sometime. Just haven't yet.

What I find disturbing that results in you believing a passage has to do with the secret rapture, and I take the same passage to be when every eye shall see Him come in the clouds is if yours is true, why didn't one of the apostles put the difference between the two, or even mention the two in one teaching?

God is not one of confusion.
Hopefully I have explained why I do NOT believe the rapture is a secret because everyone will see Him and then destruction will come on a third of the earth which sets the stage for the coming great tribulation.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Not every believer hopes in Him for that when a lot of self help and support groups look to commitments & other things for that help.

Not sure how you got that from my comment. I believe in OSAS, but running that race is for discipleship, looking to Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin as we rest in Him that we are saved to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House.

Those found not abiding in Him or still former believers run the risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes but they are still saved as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House. All offenses on that foundation will get burned off, but as they incur a physical death for the wages of sins, their spirit is saved & will be with Him in Heaven when they die because that foundation remains and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere.

The "secret" rapture as coming before the great tribulation is not a secret. Everyone will see Him, that sign of the Son of Man in Heaven, and then the everlasting gospel will be spread by that angel after the rapture and then destruction will come on a third of the earth for why the 3rd angel warns every one of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire. I fathom that the destruction of the third of the earth will send the world in a panic and go into survival mode for why the warning by the 3rd angel is afterwards. So how they respond to the gospel after hearing it, the destruction on a third of the earth, & the temptation to join the NWO so as to make sure they can buy & sell is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth AFTER the rapture.

So it will not be a secret. All will see Him, but I believe after that fiery calamity, most people will be tempted to forget and go into survival mode, even forgetting what the 3rd angel said after that fiery calamity.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Hopefully I have explained why I do NOT believe the rapture is a secret because everyone will see Him and then destruction will come on a third of the earth which sets the stage for the coming great tribulation.

About OSAS. What does "castaway" mean to you? I believe we must endure to the end to be saved.
 

e v e

Super Member
Revelation 14:1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Those virgin men were of the earth when they were raptured, as redeemed among men being of the firstfruits as they were virgin physically as in not defiled with women and no guile was found in their mouths for why they were chosen to be His personal choir among the others raptured. The phrase "without fault" is in regards to speaking no guile as it is Christ Jesus & His righteousness that is presenting them as faultless so they cannot glory in the flesh in regards to why they were chosen by Him in being His personal choir. when they were that way by His grace & by His help
it doesnt mean what you think.
 

e v e

Super Member
Are you going to tell us what you think, sis?
I've posted about it on these forums,
and it would take a bit to explain

but I will try again..

the 144k are the souls separated from their original being (sacred ones) in Eden...
and they are being restored...

but this does not mean only males..and to understand virgin as a term,
think of the opposite of this phallic world...
Because that is a FALLEN concept
and eden doesnt need or have phallic concepts.

The relation of female to male in scripture (OT)
is male as covering of female...

female is the INSIDE and core of love of male...
and as such, he is her outside...

To be virgin is to be in the Right Position,
which is not relating to any phallic situation, which is backwards
(per what I described as female as core of love of male)

This is why, in scripture, there is the relation of God - Male - Female..
where Male is the covering and protection and head of female and God is the head of male and female.

this does NOT imply a higher and a lower relation...
for we know male in eden clings to his female...

and in eden I do not mean on this earth, in these temporal dead bodies,
but in the eden glorified body.

What adam did that was so horrible was that he did not cover and protect eve
and there she was alone, with no covering...confronted by satan....

it was to adam given to protect her and be the covering.

at the fall, we lost the Proper relation of male and female
and soon after, souls separated from eden, were reduced to the current sackcloth (body)

these bodies are corrupt, because of the fall, and as such, have features
which eden did not have, as a result of sin, and are SIN nature.


at the Change, when we Change to our glorified being, male and female will be in the proper
position again, which is innocent, and lacks those acquired fallen features.

Female will be again protected and covered ..
Remember that the image of God is Male And Female...
not a higher and lower, and male and female, in His image is not SEPARATED...
as we are on this earth where we go out 'looking for some mate'

that is a fallen situation...


The image of God is both male and female
and they are not Separated and that is why the term Virgin

Innocent, not violated, not separated, whole, one.

And that is why there is no marriage in heaven...
there is Nothing to join since Nothing is separated.

Whereas in this fallen situation on this earth,
we are separated, and the 'joining' involves the fallen situation
which does not exist in heaven, and which is backwards, the wrong position
and a violation..

a joining of that which is not originally together.

A substandard situation...

and this is why in the end, many separate, per rev,
for only what is in Heaven will be in heaven
and some of these unions are not.

Therefore, the situation of eden is innocent, and virgin, even as male and female are ONE image,
unseparated by the fall.

For the fall separated not only us from God but male from female
and all of us from eden, our real land,
and from our real imperishable eden bodies.

The 144k males are virgins, and included there are the females who are part of them,
intended for them as one.


The number may well be many more.

These 144k represent Israel and Judah, as the two houses..
and they will all return to this corrupt earth with Christ
as the Two Witnesses, to bring home millions more souls

to whom they will witness and appear in their glorified being...

The 144k males and females are Hebrew souls.

In hebrew, the term for soul is npsh and represents the whole being, not merely just
spirit...
The word soul means body and also soul. it is one undivided being.

So. the 144k are not jewish human of this earth type body males and females.

They are npsh souls of Him, reunited at the Change to their true bodies, to each other,
and to their land, which was promised to Abraham... EDEN.

This has nothing to do with people in the current type bodies who are males
and jewish.

These are hebrew souls (as we all are!) who are in the proper situation and position
with God and with each their partner.... and who have been restored to Eden.

Those are the 144k.
 

e v e

Super Member
The defiled of the corrupt passage quoted
can only refer to these current temporal bodies, which are sin nature...
and would never refer to eden female..
for the Image of Him is male and female..

both males and females are going to the change…and are part of the 144k, together...
and both to have their Change to their gorgeous eden nature, the bodies Adam and Eve
had in eden...

eden was never on this earth -- which is a result of the fall.
 
Last edited:

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
I've posted about it on these forums,
and it would take a bit to explain

but I will try again..

the 144k are the souls separated from their original being (sacred ones) in Eden...
and they are being restored...

but this does not mean only males..and to understand virgin as a term,
think of the opposite of this phallic world...
Because that is a FALLEN concept
and eden doesnt need or have phallic concepts.

The relation of female to male in scripture (OT)
is male as covering of female...

female is the INSIDE and core of love of male...
and as such, he is her outside...

To be virgin is to be in the Right Position,
which is not relating to any phallic situation, which is backwards
(per what I described as female as core of love of male)

This is why, in scripture, there is the relation of God - Male - Female..
where Male is the covering and protection and head of female and God is the head of male and female.

this does NOT imply a higher and a lower relation...
for we know male in eden clings to his female...

and in eden I do not mean on this earth, in these temporal dead bodies,
but in the eden glorified body.

What adam did that was so horrible was that he did not cover and protect eve
and there she was alone, with no covering...confronted by satan....

it was to adam given to protect her and be the covering.

at the fall, we lost the Proper relation of male and female
and soon after, souls separated from eden, were reduced to the current sackcloth (body)

these bodies are corrupt, because of the fall, and as such, have features
which eden did not have, as a result of sin, and are SIN nature.


at the Change, when we Change to our glorified being, male and female will be in the proper
position again, which is innocent, and lacks those acquired fallen features.

Female will be again protected and covered ..
Remember that the image of God is Male And Female...
not a higher and lower, and male and female, in His image is not SEPARATED...
as we are on this earth where we go out 'looking for some mate'

that is a fallen situation...


The image of God is both male and female
and they are not Separated and that is why the term Virgin

Innocent, not violated, not separated, whole, one.

And that is why there is no marriage in heaven...
there is Nothing to join since Nothing is separated.

Whereas in this fallen situation on this earth,
we are separated, and the 'joining' involves the fallen situation
which does not exist in heaven, and which is backwards, the wrong position
and a violation..

a joining of that which is not originally together.

A substandard situation...

and this is why in the end, many separate, per rev,
for only what is in Heaven will be in heaven
and some of these unions are not.

Therefore, the situation of eden is innocent, and virgin, even as male and female are ONE image,
unseparated by the fall.

For the fall separated not only us from God but male from female
and all of us from eden, our real land,
and from our real imperishable eden bodies.

The 144k males are virgins, and included there are the females who are part of them,
intended for them as one.


The number may well be many more.

These 144k represent Israel and Judah, as the two houses..
and they will all return to this corrupt earth with Christ
as the Two Witnesses, to bring home millions more souls

to whom they will witness and appear in their glorified being...

The 144k males and females are Hebrew souls.

In hebrew, the term for soul is npsh and represents the whole being, not merely just
spirit...
The word soul means body and also soul. it is one undivided being.

So. the 144k are not jewish human of this earth type body males and females.

They are npsh souls of Him, reunited at the Change to their true bodies, to each other,
and to their land, which was promised to Abraham... EDEN.

This has nothing to do with people in the current type bodies who are males
and jewish.

These are hebrew souls (as we all are!) who are in the proper situation and position
with God and with each their partner.... and who have been restored to Eden.

Those are the 144k.
Interesting.
 

Slyzr

Active member
I've posted about it on these forums,
and it would take a bit to explain

but I will try again..

the 144k are the souls separated from their original being (sacred ones) in Eden...
and they are being restored...

but this does not mean only males..and to understand virgin as a term,
think of the opposite of this phallic world...
Because that is a FALLEN concept
and eden doesnt need or have phallic concepts.

The relation of female to male in scripture (OT)
is male as covering of female...

female is the INSIDE and core of love of male...
and as such, he is her outside...

To be virgin is to be in the Right Position,
which is not relating to any phallic situation, which is backwards
(per what I described as female as core of love of male)

This is why, in scripture, there is the relation of God - Male - Female..
where Male is the covering and protection and head of female and God is the head of male and female.

this does NOT imply a higher and a lower relation...
for we know male in eden clings to his female...

and in eden I do not mean on this earth, in these temporal dead bodies,
but in the eden glorified body.

What adam did that was so horrible was that he did not cover and protect eve
and there she was alone, with no covering...confronted by satan....

it was to adam given to protect her and be the covering.

at the fall, we lost the Proper relation of male and female
and soon after, souls separated from eden, were reduced to the current sackcloth (body)

these bodies are corrupt, because of the fall, and as such, have features
which eden did not have, as a result of sin, and are SIN nature.


at the Change, when we Change to our glorified being, male and female will be in the proper
position again, which is innocent, and lacks those acquired fallen features.

Female will be again protected and covered ..
Remember that the image of God is Male And Female...
not a higher and lower, and male and female, in His image is not SEPARATED...
as we are on this earth where we go out 'looking for some mate'

that is a fallen situation...


The image of God is both male and female
and they are not Separated and that is why the term Virgin

Innocent, not violated, not separated, whole, one.

And that is why there is no marriage in heaven...
there is Nothing to join since Nothing is separated.

Whereas in this fallen situation on this earth,
we are separated, and the 'joining' involves the fallen situation
which does not exist in heaven, and which is backwards, the wrong position
and a violation..

a joining of that which is not originally together.

A substandard situation...

and this is why in the end, many separate, per rev,
for only what is in Heaven will be in heaven
and some of these unions are not.

Therefore, the situation of eden is innocent, and virgin, even as male and female are ONE image,
unseparated by the fall.

For the fall separated not only us from God but male from female
and all of us from eden, our real land,
and from our real imperishable eden bodies.

The 144k males are virgins, and included there are the females who are part of them,
intended for them as one.


The number may well be many more.

These 144k represent Israel and Judah, as the two houses..
and they will all return to this corrupt earth with Christ
as the Two Witnesses, to bring home millions more souls

to whom they will witness and appear in their glorified being...

The 144k males and females are Hebrew souls.

In hebrew, the term for soul is npsh and represents the whole being, not merely just
spirit...
The word soul means body and also soul. it is one undivided being.

So. the 144k are not jewish human of this earth type body males and females.

They are npsh souls of Him, reunited at the Change to their true bodies, to each other,
and to their land, which was promised to Abraham... EDEN.

This has nothing to do with people in the current type bodies who are males
and jewish.

These are hebrew souls (as we all are!) who are in the proper situation and position
with God and with each their partner.... and who have been restored to Eden.

Those are the 144k.

IMO ...... you are propagating the fall but do not realize it.
 

Hark

Well-known member
About OSAS. What does "castaway" mean to you?
Disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven. In other words, excommunication for not being ready by abiding in Him by His grace & His help in our trusting Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend.

The purpose behind excommunication by God can be seen by the same purpose behind excommunication by churches down here.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Churches are to maintain proper fellowship EVEN with eating with one another and so will God do for the Marriage Supper above by excommunicating those not abiding in Him that are in need of repentance from iniquity.

1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

So this is what happens to those left behind; when you compare 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 of the destruction of the flesh yet the spirit is saved with how works are burned off of that foundation that are wood, stubble, and hay, with the body destroyed ( death ) but the spirit is saved in that day.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

I know you believe that is only applied to ministry but the temple being destroyed is the physical body dying for defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit and so it is to be applied to each individual believer for what they have built on that foundation ( salvation ) as that foundation remains ( salvation ) but the works that deny Him will be purged off by Him. Better to seek Him to do that now before the Bridegroom comes.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
I believe we must endure to the end to be saved.
That phrase is to be applied to being saved from what is coming on the earth. If you read 2 Peter 3rd chapter, it has that meaning when warned about the fiery calamity that is to come on 3rd of the earth for not being ready as enduring to the end to be saved from that God's judgment.

I hope you read the scriptures provided because they explain how OSAS is true but not every believer will be ready when He comes in the latter days which is why He is warning believers or else be cut off from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven to face the fire with unbelievers coming on the 3rd of the earth which will serve as a catalyst for the immediate coming great tribulation; that hour of temptation that shall try all remaining on the earth regarding the mark of the beast system. Luke 12:40-49
 

Hark

Well-known member
it doesnt mean what you think.
Have you considered with Him that it does mean what I have read? You should. He is coming and He has prophesied and warned that believers not found abiding in Him, will be cut off with the unbelievers when that fire is coming on the third of the earth.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

That is why He still calls those left behind as "His" servants as they are judged by the measure of knowledge they had by stripes for not being ready & lesser stripes for lack of knowledge for not being ready because they are still saved. but not from the fire coming on that third of the earth that will serve as a catalyst for the coming hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth; the great tribulation..


Revelation 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
 
Top