Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[Saxon]

All was inspired, but not all for us today!

Scripture for that please.

 

[Abounds]

SO Nothing of substance - again.

Just meeting you in kind then I guess

 

[Saxon]

Jesus is God.

And man.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Saxon]

Out of context. Read further up, he was FORMERLY a blasphemer - sinner. It is Paul who writes that Jesus frees us from sin. Who? Everyone but himself?

That does not erase the statement I am .

Paul also wrote "I" in Romans 7:9. Was Paul over 1300 years old and present before and when Moses received the Law?

The romans verse is about the law, nothing to do with Paul's statement I am the chief.

May I ask what denomination you are?

I am a Christian by the grace of God, through faith. A Pentecostal by experience and a member of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada by choice.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Scripture for that please.

It's gonna be based on some version of 1 Cor 13:10 - since "that perfect" is supposedly the "Biblical Canon".

 

[Abounds]

And man.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Shall we ice this Cake?

Acts 2:22 — “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know—

John 9:11 — He answered, “The man who is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said to me, ‘Go to Siloam and wash’; so I went away and washed, and I received sight.”

Now... Jesus refers to himself as the Son of?

John 9:35 — Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”

Charismatic Lady
I could go about my Bible finding the many passages where Jesus is called the son of man...but then what would you have left to do?

 

[Saxon]

It's gonna be based on some version of 1 Cor 13:10 - since "that perfect" is supposedly the "Biblical Canon".

If that is the case, he should do a quick search to find that God is the perfection in this universe, nothing else.

 

[Saxon]

You just posted that: "Jesus baptises with anything but the Holy Spirit and fire."

Finger troubles. I should be "nothing" Surely you are intelligent enough to have figured that out.

Which means that Jesus baptizes with anything except the fire of the Holy Spirit. So Jesus baptizes with Indulgences, fiery serpents, new age crystals, esoteric gnosticism, etc.

The point is that he doesn't have to be born the first time.

If he was standing there with Jesus he obviously was born the first time. Jesus informed him that he needed to be born again; a second time.

 

[Abounds]

It's gonna be based on some version of 1 Cor 13:10 - since "that perfect" is supposedly the "Biblical Canon".

13:8 you mean?
1 Corinthians 13:8 — Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

Also I suggest you read the Epistles of Paul in order its logical and makes the above scripture more clear. Remember of the apostles Paul would be the most " charismatic" lack of a better word. He even mentioned speaking in tongues more than others. Paul also wrote that above scripture which is anything but ambiguous. Paul was a cessationist it seems...must be a Calvinist too...by your logic.

 

[shnarkle]

Finger troubles. I should be "nothing" Surely you are intelligent enough to have figured that out.

In this forum, anything is possible. I never assume.

If he was standing there with Jesus he obviously was born the first time.

Agreed. Therefore he needn't assume that Jesus would claim that one must be born in the flesh. This isn't necessary to jot down on one's "things to do in order to be saved" list.

Jesus informed him that he needed to be born again; a second time.

Each and every cell in your body didn't exist just a few years ago. They come into existence (one could say they are born), and they die. Barring the logistical problems involved, it each and every cell in your body were to clone their information to their newly born cells while the body was asleep, you would wake up next to your own corpse every few months, or however long they live. You could have any number of births and deaths during your lifetime.

The point here is that a spiritual birth is not a second birth, it is the first and only birth that is relevant to the conversation Jesus is having with Nicodemus.

The metaphor of birth is used to show that just as there is nothing one can do to be born because it is something their mother does. so too there is nothing one can do to be born of the spirit. We could make the same case for begetting which is a much better translation e.g. "begotten from above", or "begotten anew".

It is a spiritual begetting, and it is only according to God's will that it happens. "The spirit breathes where HE WILL, you may hear the sound of his voice, but you know not where it comes from or where it is going, so it is with everyone who is begotten of the Spirit"

 

[Saxon]

In this forum, anything is possible. I never assume.

Agreed. Therefore he needn't assume that Jesus would claim that one must be born in the flesh. This isn't necessary to jot down on one's "things to do in order to be saved" list.

Being born in the flesh is the first birth. It gets you into the world, Earth.

Each and every cell in your body didn't exist just a few years ago. They come into existence (one could say they are born), and they die. Barring the logistical problems involved, it each and every cell in your body were to clone their information to their newly born cells while the body was asleep, you would wake up next to your own corpse every few months, or however long they live. You could have any number of births and deaths during your lifetime.

I believe that you said this in a previous post but it is not in the same context that Jesus is speaking. He is not talking of cell regeneration but of spirit regeneration.

The point here is that a spiritual birth is not a second birth, it is the first and only birth that is relevant to the conversation Jesus is having with Nicodemus.

The point is that spiritual birth is the second birth. We are all born spiritually dead, dead in trespasses and sin. The way you are stating it could lead one to think that we are born saved and still have to be saved. Your logic is not logical.

The metaphor of birth is used to show that just as there is nothing one can do to be born because it is something their mother does. so too there is nothing one can do to be born of the spirit. We could make the same case for begetting which is a much better translation e.g. "begotten from above", or "begotten anew".

If that is the case why did Jesus say "you must be born AGAIN"?

It is a spiritual begetting, and it is only according to God's will that it happens. "The spirit breathes where HE WILL, you may hear the sound of his voice, but you know not where it comes from or where it is going, so it is with everyone who is begotten of the Spirit"

That is speaking of the Holy Spirit, the spirit that is born again, anew, begotten from above or begotten anew is the human spirit, you know; spirit soul and body.

 

[RayneBeau]

Charismatic Lady – Before I answer your question, some very important and very serious things need to be pointed out and addressed. They are:
a) your making statements that you provide no basis/proof for, and
b) the inability to remain focused that is seen in your posts, and
c) your making accusations about me (and others) that have no substantiation and are, in fact, false accusations. Here are some examples:

1) You said that the Charismatic movement is the church age of Philadelphia spoken of in Revelation, chapter 3. However, you did not and do not provide any basis or proof at all for making that statement and having that belief. If you are going to state a belief that you have, it is necessary for you to provide a basis for it. You need to provide substantiation for that belief. In other words, you need to explain why you believe as you do and why you believe that belief is 'right' – That is how a discussion forum works. And – You cannot be vague or generalized about this. You cannot merely say, “My beliefs are found in and based on the Bible.” That is not enough – Anyone can say that. People in cults like the JWs and Mormons say that all the time. You need to do better than them – You need to be clear and specific. Please don't say that you already have done this, because that is just not true.

2) You believe and claim that you are a Christian. But you said that Jesus Christ had only one nature – divine. More than one person has informed you that this is simply not true – not when it comes to the beliefs and teachings of Christianity. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is both divine and human. He is fully God and fully human being – Two complete natures in one Person. That is the witness of Scripture; that is a big part of what the word “Incarnation” means. When what Christians believe and teach was pointed out to you, you did not engage with it at all. Instead, you switched to another subject altogether. This inability to stay focused on the subject is not a good thing.

3) You spoke of “dead doctrines” that belong to the Reformation. However, you failed to provide any real examples of what you mean by that, and therefore your statement has no proof or substantiation that supports it and is therefore an empty, meaningless declaration.

4) You said that, “The apostles taught correctly. The Church since the apostles died have perverted the gospel.” However, you did not provide any specific examples of what you mean by this. What specific teachings do you have in mind that the apostles taught that have been perverted? Name them. Explain what they are and how they have been perverted.

5) Regarding our discussion of 1 Tim. 1:15 – Where Paul speaks of himself in the present tense as being a sinner (it would be my post #73 where I explain this) – you said, “He was free from sins unto death”. This does not actually engage with what I wrote – It is actually a switch to a different subject altogether on your part. This is what I mean by your inability to remained focused. The truth is that Paul makes no mention at all of 'sins unto death' – The idea that he is referring to that is something that you have to add or read into the text in order to force the text to come up with your belief. This is not a good thing.

6) When we looked at 1 John 1:8-9, I said, “You need to look closely at verse 8. Remember that John is writing to Christians here: 'If we claim to be without sin – If we claim to be sinless – we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." Your response was to first accuse me of taking the verse out of context. However, you provided no proof at all whatsoever to substantiate that accusation. I even challenged you on that. It is post #65. For the sake of convenience, I will repeat it here: “Nothing I wrote is out of context - Certainly not because you say it is. Your declaration is nothing more than an assertion without substantiation. What I wrote about verse 8 is absolutely 100% accurate and correct. Feel free to try to prove otherwise. Please note – I said "prove" otherwise. Don't just say it – Show it. Prove that what I've said is taken out of context and is wrong. Show me where how and why.”

Lady – You did not do that, and that is a major failing. Your next post to me (#67) does not actually show or prove where and how and why I'm wrong. Instead, you appealed to 1 John 3:9. I responded in post #69, by saying: “An actual study of 1 John 3:9 shows that the verbs there refer to continuing or continuous sin. Christians do not engage in continuous sin – meaning 'a sinful lifestyle'. Same thing is true for the word "walk" – Christians do not walk (live) in darkness (sin). But that doesn't mean that they don't sin at all. Remember what Paul said in 1 Timothy. He wrote in the present tense when he said "I am the chief (or worst) of sinners." He admitted that he still struggled with sins on occasion. He was no longer engaged in a life/lifestyle of sin, no. But he was not sin-free.”

Your response to that was the following: “You still think that 1 John 1:8 is about a Christian.” Yes, I do – because it IS. The fact, truth, and reality is that 1 John 1:8 IS addressed to Christian churches – The whole letter of 1 John is addressed to Christian churches. For you to believe or say it is not puts you in the position of setting yourself directly against the word of God. Think for a few seconds about the use of the word “we”:
Think – Who is John addressing? Who does the word “we” refer to in those verses? Who? Obviously, it refers to those people in the Christian churches John was writing to. Do you really wish to deny this? If so, then prove - don't just say, PROVE - that 1 John 1:8 is not written about Christians.

7) You accused me of not being ready for "advanced theology". Again – With all due respect, I have yet to read anything even remotely indicating a good grasp of BASIC Christian theology in your posts. Your denial of Jesus Christ being the God/man is a shocking thing to me. It is not an understatement at all to say that having this belief actually puts you outside of Biblical Christianity.

8) You have accused me falsely. You accused me of believing that Jesus died so we could sin with impunity. NO – I don't believe that Jesus died so we could sin with impunity. However, the main thing - the really, REALLY BIG thing - that you need to clearly understand is what you did there: By writing what you did, you have broken the commandment to not bear false witness against another – You are flat out guilty of sinning against me. Now – You said, “Those who sin are children of the devil.” Well, Lady – YOU yourself have sinned by bearing false witness against me. So, by your beliefs, what does that make YOU?

Enough for now. For the sake of integrity, it really is essential for you to respond to the things I have I written here. When you are done, and if you wish, I can respond to your question of, “Are you really trying to justify your sinning?” Briefly – No, I am not. When you are done addressing what I have written here, I can explain that in detail if you wish.

Quite interesting is the fact that the accusing poster is sinfully adding words to change what the Scripture really says. Jesus Christ NEVER applied the words "children of the devil" to ordinary sinners, He applied them to religious disbelievers. Absolutely no where is it taught in the Bible that we are by nature "children of the devil."

 

[shnarkle]

Being born in the flesh is the first birth. It gets you into the world, Earth.

I believe that you said this in a previous post but it is not in the same context that Jesus is speaking. He is not talking of cell regeneration but of spirit regeneration.

The point is that spiritual birth is the second birth. We are all born spiritually dead, dead in trespasses and sin. The way you are stating it could lead one to think that we are born saved and still have to be saved. Your logic is not logical.

If that is the case why did Jesus say "you must be born AGAIN"?

That is speaking of the Holy Spirit, the spirit that is born again, anew, begotten from above or begotten anew is the human spirit, you know; spirit soul and body.

Given that you aren't advancing an argument, and basically ignoring what I'm posting, I'll simply return the favor.

 

[Saxon]

Given that you aren't advancing an argument, and basically ignoring what I'm posting, I'll simply return the favor.

No, you just don't have an answer.

 

[CharismaticLady]

And man.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

of course...

The human part of Him did not sin either. So why question why I say being in the Spirit I don't sin either?

The question is the title of the OP. Does anyone in your religion have the Holy Spirit residing in them so then don't sin? I was a sinner too going to church for 30 years. But when I received the Holy Spirit it was the difference between night and day. I didn't sin anymore, or even want to. That, my friend, is the power of God IN us.

You all know about Him, but you don't KNOW Him. You don't abide IN Him, and He IN you.

 

[imJRR]

Do you sin?

Not as much as I used to, thanks to the working of the Holy Spirit over the years, but I sure don't and won't claim to be sinless - That would be going in direct opposition to what the Bible says. It would also be going directly against real life reality and truth.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Not as much as I used to, thanks to the working of the Holy Spirit over the years, but I sure don't and won't claim to be sinless - That would be going in direct opposition to what the Bible says. It would also be going directly against real life reality and truth.

See, you are going by a verse about someone who has never repented before and been cleansed of all their sin. That is what I mean by you all, not just you, misinterpreting 1 John 1:8.

God is light, and there is no darkness in Him. So is the person in 1 John 1:6 a Christian who is walking (practicing) darkness? It has the world "we" in it remember, the same as 8?

 

[Saxon]

of course...

The human part of Him did not sin either. So why question why I say being in the Spirit I don't sin either?

The question is the title of the OP. Does anyone in your religion have the Holy Spirit residing in them so then don't sin? I was a sinner too going to church for 30 years. But when I received the Holy Spirit it was the difference between night and day. I didn't sin anymore, or even want to. That, my friend, is the power of God IN us.

You all know about Him, but you don't KNOW Him. You don't abide IN Him, and He IN you.

The fact is we all still sin, we don't make a practice of sinning, but we do. Read 1 John chapter 1. It is written to Christians as every book in the Bible is.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The fact is we all still sin, we don't make a practice of sinning, but we do. Read 1 John chapter 1. It is written to Christians as every book in the Bible is.

God is light, and there is no darkness in Him. So is the person in 1 John 1:6 a Christian who is walking (practicing) darkness? It has the world "we" in it remember, the same as 8?

 

[imJRR]

No, I am not misinterpreting 1 John 1:8 at all - Certainly not because you say so. 1 John was written to Christian churches. Verse 8 has to do with those who claim to be Christians who have reached the point of sinlessness. These people are self-deceived. It is 1 John 1:10 that you are thinking of. The people referred to in that verse are saying, "I have not sinned, period. - I am not a sinner." These people are liars.

And then there is the reference I gave to the Book of James. His letter was written to Christians, and he names sins that Christians do commit.

In terms of 1 John 1:6, that refers to those who claim to be Christians, but their "walk" - their continual pattern, habit and direction of life - is in "darkness"/sin. Again, these people are liars - Their claim is contradicted by the continual pattern, habit and direction of their life. They lack genuine salvation.