Be A Man!

treeplanter

Well-known member
They didn't they were the unfortunate victims of people who made bad choices. Bad crap happens because bad people make bad choices. People are free in will.
There is a difference between bad crap happens because bad people make bad choices
AND
God consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon innocent babies because bad adults made bad choices

God CHOSE to drown innocent babies
He DIDN'T HAVE TO drown innocent babies
He consciously and purposefully CHOSE to do so
He consciously and purposefully CHOSE to inflict needless harm upon innocent babies

This is immoral
This is evil

The ball is now in His court
If He so CHOOSES, He can make it known to me how and why He was morally justified in drowning babies

The ball is also in your court, Iggy
You claim that He already has made it clear to me that He was morally justified in drowning babies

Where and when did He do so?
What is the explanation that He has offered to me?
 
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ferengi

Well-known member
God consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon innocent babies because bad adults made bad choices

God CHOSE to drown innocent babies
He DIDN'T HAVE TO drown innocent babies
He consciously and purposefully CHOSE to do so
He consciously and purposefully CHOSE to inflict needless harm upon innocent babies

This is immoral
This is evil
Prove it - and FALSE - according to your "subjective morality" its perfectly moral because god FELT it was moral.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Why doesn't God be a man and explain Himself?

Any and every moral position that I take, I am more than happy to explain!

Why can't God do the same?

Yeah, yeah, sure, I know, you've told me time and again - God isn't subject to the same requirements that we are...


What I want to know, though, is HOW and WHY it isn't cowardly of God to refuse to step up and do what even I, an infinitely weak and imperfect being, am willing to do?


Anyone??
I can't comment too much on the thread topic, but I wanted to describe a thought I had while reading your OP. The Christian God is often described as being the source for many metaphysical things: Goodness, Logic, Love, etc; those things are what-they-are, because God is who-He-is, etc.

One of those things is Morality. It's wrong to murder, because of God's nature - etc.

Ignoring the chicken/egg dilemma this presents, I think it's interesting that God seems to be excluded from one of the basic functions of morality: being able to explain WHY you took a certain course of action, and how that action was derived from moral your principles. According to Christianity, every moral being is accountable for their actions, and that entails being able to describe the justification for those actions. You killed a man because he was assaulting an old woman (and thus the killing was justified); you lied because you were keeping Jews in your attic safe from the Nazis searching for them (and thus the lying was justified); etc.

God - however - never needs to justify Himself. He's never accountable to His own nature.

Weird...
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
Yep.
You
Don't
Think

Pity.
There are hundreds of millions of us the world over, who do in fact believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, so save us from our sin, so we can be right with God, and adopted as his sons and daughters.
And we do so, exactly for the reason that
We
Do
Think.

So, I'm curioous.... if you DON'T think, why would you call yourself "bigthinker"?

Seems a misnomer.
Perhaps you should start calling yourself--- I don't think.

You know what I am reminded of when I see statements like this, and your "name", which you've made here....

Wisdom is in the sight of him who has understanding,​
But the eyes of a fool are on the ends of the earth.

So.... no BT.
It's not a joke.
It is a joke.
There are people in the near east, middle east, and the far east, who are in prison, and being murdered, whose lives are stripped from them because they actually believe God, and think it's people like you who are in dire need of Jesus.
You are suggesting they are victims of their own joke? They are in prison for believing something for which there is no evidence of being true. I appreciate their commitment but question their sanity.
When people in those countries hear about you, they pray for you. Begging God to save you from your folly, and blindness.
Wouldn't it be nice if prayer was effective outside of the imagination?
I appreciate their intentions but that's all it is. Unless you are suggesting that my good fortune is the direct result of the prayers of those who suffer for their belief. Where is the justice in that? God blesses me but allows them to suffer? C'mon.
 

Ignatius

Active member
There is a difference between bad crap happens because bad people make bad choices
AND
God consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon innocent babies because bad adults made bad choices

God CHOSE to drown innocent babies
He DIDN'T HAVE TO drown innocent babies
He consciously and purposefully CHOSE to do so
He consciously and purposefully CHOSE to inflict needless harm upon innocent babies

This is immoral
This is evil

The ball is now in His court
If He so CHOOSES, He can make it known to me how and why He was morally justified in drowning babies

The ball is also in your court, Iggy
You claim that He already has made it clear to me that He was morally justified in drowning babies

Where and when did He do so?
What is the explanation that He has offered to me?
He doesn't offer explanation to YOU. Are you REALLY that self absorbed? I suspect so. There have been generations of explanations but you don't read them do you? You have a child's view of the world. Sad.
 

Ignatius

Active member
What else could an atheist be? With their "subjective morality" they don't know how silly their incredible arrogance is.
They actually think God owes them an explanation. As if God works for them. No wonder they think and behave the way they do, they believe the creator of the world works for them. The rest of us are just chattel.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
They actually think God owes them an explanation.
Thats the unmitigated arrogance atheism leads to - when there are no boundaries anything goes.
As if God works for them. No wonder they think and behave the way they do, they believe the creator of the world works for them. The rest of us are just chattel.
Yep - thats how we got the Holocaust and Stalin, and Mao and Pol Pot and over 100 million slaughtered by atheists.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
He doesn't offer explanation to YOU. Are you REALLY that self absorbed? I suspect so. There have been generations of explanations but you don't read them do you? You have a child's view of the world. Sad.
God wants me to love Him despite His doing what I know to be immoral
{like drowning innocent babies}

God claims to love me, but refuses to make it possible for me to return His love
{when all He has to do is make it known to me that what I see as immoral {like drowning babies} isn't actually immoral}

Seems to me that it is God, and not myself, that is the self absorbed one!


You said that God HAS explained Himself!
What explanation has God offered for having chosen to drown innocent babies?????


PS
I wasn't planning on going here, but...
If you're going to accuse me of having a child's view of the world...
how do you account for your belief in what amounts to an invisible sky daddy?
 

Ignatius

Active member
God wants me to love Him despite His doing what I know to be immoral
{like drowning innocent babies}

God claims to love me, but refuses to make it possible for me to return His love
{when all He has to do is make it known to me that what I see as immoral {like drowning babies} isn't actually immoral}

Seems to me that it is God, and not myself, that is the self absorbed one!


You said that God HAS explained Himself!
What explanation has God offered for having chosen to drown innocent babies?????


PS
I wasn't planning on going here, but...
If you're going to accuse me of having a child's view of the world...
how do you account for your belief in what amounts to an invisible sky daddy?
God doesn't WANT anything from you. That's your problem
 

Ignatius

Active member
God doesn't want each of us to come to Him and spend eternity in His Kingdom?
He may so what? He isnt going to just through hoops for you like a.performong monkey. He isn't one of the morons you deal with everyday who feel compelled to explain themselves to you. Thats what you can't fathom.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Why doesn't God be a man and explain Himself?

God is reality. And if you want to know reality, then you have to believe it in order to make Him known to you.

Any and every moral position that I take, I am more than happy to explain! Why can't God do the same?

So does He.

Yeah, yeah, sure, I know, you've told me time and again - God isn't subject to the same requirements that we are...

Actually that's not true, because no-one can know what you are saying is true unless they believe you. And God works the same way.

What I want to know, though, is HOW and WHY it isn't cowardly of God to refuse to step up and do what even I, an infinitely weak and imperfect being, am willing to do?
Anyone??

Do you know God? No.

Doing you believe God exists? No.

How and why do you expect to know God exists, when you disbelieve He exists at the same time? In your unbelief (atheism) you are literally doing what makes the truth and reality unknown to you. So, if you really wanted to know the truth and reality of God's existence; you would have to be believing instead of disbelieving.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
He may so what? He isnt going to just through hoops for you like a.performong monkey. He isn't one of the morons you deal with everyday who feel compelled to explain themselves to you. Thats what you can't fathom.
Oh boy, I know this is going to upset you, but I'm going to have to ask you for some clarification here!

You just told me, less than 10 minutes ago, in post #56, that:

"God doesn't WANT anything from you"

And now you are telling me that:

"He may" want me to come to Him and spend eternity in His Kingdom

Which is it?????

And by the way, I am NOT asking that God jump through hoops and perform like a monkey
I am simply asking for Him to explain how and why He is not immoral even though He does immoral things like drowning babies?
This is not too much to ask of a god who can provide the answer{s} with greater speed and ease than I can blink my eyes
Especially when you consider that He is asking for my love and devotion!


And, once again:
You said that God HAS explained Himself!
What explanation has God offered for having chosen to drown innocent babies?????
 
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