Be quiet - the parents don't have to know

[Temujin]

There have been a couple of noted cases involving trans gender students raping another student. While rare, it unfortunately does occur. For my part, I feel it speaks more to whatever makes rape far too common in the US than to the trans gender issue.

Do you know of any cases of rape where neither party was trans? How do the numbers compare? I don't think that anyone claims that being trans prevents one from being a criminal. Nor is the idea that someone could fake being trans in the course of committing crime. The allegations seem to be however that either trans women are primarily interested in access to vulnerable women, and/or that trans status grants that access. I would say that both legs of that allegation would be flawed.

 

[BMS]

I'm afraid you cannot generalise like that. I have personally known parents who have abused their children, even tried to kill them. I have sat on case conferences where children were taken away from parents to keep them safe. Sure, in an ideal world, the best people to advise and look after a child is their parent. Sadly, the world is not ideal. The interest of child and parent do not always coincide. Parents are guardians, not owners of their children. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Your line of argument is about parental and child responsibilities in general, to avoid the specific issues of gender identity ideology, which like paedophilia is child abuse.

 

[Temujin]

I'd like to think that if a child came into the emergency room bleeding to death and they couldn't locate the parents, they'd do what they could to save the child's life and worry about what the parents think later.

But the cases of abortion or transitioning are nothing like that at all.

I'm absolutely sure that would happen, whether or not the parents agreed. I also agree that abortion and trans issues are different. However, it's still the case that at some point in their lives a person takes such decisions whether or not their parents agree with them. And at some point, state authorities support that independent stance. That has to be codified into codes of practice. If those codes of practice are wrong, then they should be modified. Professionals should not be put in a position of either following authorised procedure and being sued by parents, or breaking procedure and being sued by the child. That applies whatever the issue is about.

 

[BMS]

Do you know of any cases of rape where neither party was trans? How do the numbers compare? I don't think that anyone claims that being trans prevents one from being a criminal. Nor is the idea that someone could fake being trans in the course of committing crime. The allegations seem to be however that either trans women are primarily interested in access to vulnerable women, and/or that trans status grants that access. I would say that both legs of that allegation would be flawed.

Rape is a sexual violation nor a gender one. Children are vulnerable to the lie of your ideology. Its your ideology that we are exposing

 

[Thistle]

I'm afraid you cannot generalise like that.

Yes I can! And every right person on planet earth can. And if you think otherwise there's something seriously wrong with your thinking apparatus.

I have personally known parents who have abused their children, even tried to kill them.

You're trying to defeat a general rule with an extraordinary exceptional case. That is not a valid approach to reasoning. This is something that everybody is supposed to know.

. . . Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Exactly the question that is being ask about school systems all over the United States right now.

 

[BMS]

Really good overall exposure of the gender identity lie, the child abuse and insanity. Very long but not a problem with the crap some are posting here

Becket Cook is excellent and informed on this, as he is on all the topics he covers. His theology and testimony are superb as well

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I'm absolutely sure that would happen, whether or not the parents agreed. I also agree that abortion and trans issues are different. However, it's still the case that at some point in their lives a person takes such decisions whether or not their parents agree with them. And at some point, state authorities support that independent stance. That has to be codified into codes of practice. If those codes of practice are wrong, then they should be modified. Professionals should not be put in a position of either following authorised procedure and being sued by parents, or breaking procedure and being sued by the child. That applies whatever the issue is about.

Yes, and in the US, we say that a person who is under 18 isn't old enough or mature enough to make their own medical decisions, or their own sexual decisions. (which is why a 19 year old having sex with a 17 year old is committing rape)

But oh, wait, that 9 year old identifies as transgender? We have to believe her, because OBVIOUSLY she understands things. (Wait....she hasn't even had a period yet, and isn't mature enough to even have sex but she's mature enough to decide that she's really a boy?)

I mean, this is insanity. Pure insanity.

If it's different in the UK, great. Here? It's totally nuts.

 

[Temujin]

Yes I can! And every right person on planet earth can. And if you think otherwise there's something seriously wrong with your thinking apparatus.

You're trying to defeat a general rule with an extraordinary exceptional case. That is not a valid approach to reasoning. This is something that everybody is supposed to know.

Exactly the question that is being ask about school systems all over the United States right now.

Parents abusing children is not an extraordinary exceptional case. Most abused children and most murdered children suffer at the hands of a family member, frequently a parent. Denial is not a valid approach to reasoning. Put simply, more parents abuse children than do teachers. It's a fact . Ask anyone who works in the criminal justice system. Authorities need to have procedures, with appropriate safeguards, to keep children safe. That includes being safe from abusive parents. And before you ask, no, I don't think that parents opposing a child's abortion or transgender is necessarily abusive. And no, I don't oppose a parent being involved in their child's care as the primary carer. And no, I don't support authorities, including schools, lying to parents without good reason supported by evidence. But I repeat, parents do not own their children. And occasionally, what parents want is not in the best interests of their child, and when that happens they should be overruled.

 

[Temujin]

Yes, and in the US, we say that a person who is under 18 isn't old enough or mature enough to make their own medical decisions, or their own sexual decisions. (which is why a 19 year old having sex with a 17 year old is committing rape)

But oh, wait, that 9 year old identifies as transgender? We have to believe her, because OBVIOUSLY she understands things. (Wait....she hasn't even had a period yet, and isn't mature enough to even have sex but she's mature enough to decide that she's really a boy?)

I mean, this is insanity. Pure insanity.

If it's different in the UK, great. Here? It's totally nuts.

If a 9 year old is confused about their gender, then that's all we know for sure, and nothing irreversible should be done until they are mature enough. If that's 18 years old, then fine, do nothing but support the child until they are 18. What that support consists of will vary from case to case and will be decided by medical staff and parents working in the child's best interests. I have no quibble with that.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

If a 9 year old is confused about their gender, then that's all we know for sure, and nothing irreversible should be done until they are mature enough. If that's 18 years old, then fine, do nothing but support the child until they are 18. What that support consists of will vary from case to case and will be decided by medical staff and parents working in the child's best interests. I have no quibble with that.

Yep I agree with this. Support them emotionally and with counseling, but don't use puberty blockers and absolutely do not medically/surgically transition them. 90% of them are likely to grow out of this feeling in a few years so it would be nothing short of child abuse to start removing parts on a 14 year old (never mind 9 year old).

 

[BMS]

If a 9 year old is confused about their gender, then that's all we know for sure, and nothing irreversible should be done until they are mature enough. If that's 18 years old, then fine, do nothing but support the child until they are 18. What that support consists of will vary from case to case and will be decided by medical staff and parents working in the child's best interests. I have no quibble with that.

All the studies showed that 79-94% of children showing signs of dysphoria had no dysphoria after puberty. Alas with the ideologues telling them the gender identity lies many are encouraged that will solve all their mental health issues. It is these pressure groups that need to be dealt with

 

[BMS]

Parents abusing children is not an extraordinary exceptional case.

We are talking about the schools abusing them by entertaining the idea of 'trans' and gender identity, and not telling their parents. Too many of these examples not being dealt with

 

[CrowCross]

Or to stop lying about what happens in schools and stop being outraged over myths. Next you will be wanting to close school libraries and forbid teachers from teaching history.

LOL....your CRT is already forbidding teachers from teaching history.

 

[wiseones2cents]

 

[Thistle]

Parents abusing children is not an extraordinary exceptional case.

It is extraordinarily exceptional! The vast majority of children are not abused by parents.

Most abused children and most murdered children suffer at the hands of a family member, frequently a parent.

Now you're moving the goal posts to family members. I don't know that your proposition is true, but it's important that you've found it necessary to moved the goal posts.

Denial is not a valid approach to reasoning.

Well, I don't know what I'm supposed to do when you say something that is patently false. The vast majority of children are not abused by their parents as you suggest.

Put simply, more parents abuse children than do teachers. It's a fact .

Let's hypothetically say that that is a fact, for the sake of discussion. How would you know that?

Ask anyone who works in the criminal justice system. Authorities need to have procedures, with appropriate safeguards, to keep children safe. That includes being safe from abusive parents.

Well I am a parent, and I've never had any of the authorities come to me and instruct me on how to interrogate my children to determine whether or not they're being abused at school by their teachers, counselors, administrators or coaches. So would you mind telling me more about these procedures that you're talking about? Because from the perspective of a parent these procedures you're talking about are absolutely invisible.

And before you ask, no, I don't think that parents opposing a child's abortion or transgender is necessarily abusive. And no, I don't oppose a parent being involved in their child's care as the primary carer.

Of course you don't, it's the parents job to pay for the children it's the states job to instill their values under your formula. It's the liberal formula the kids are ours once they're fed and the tuition paid.

And no, I don't support authorities, including schools, lying to parents without good reason

"Without a good reason?" When is it okay to run a clandestine operation against the parents of a child, enlisting the children as agents of the state?

supported by evidence. But I repeat, parents do not own their children.

You seem to have absolutely no access to the notion of nuance. When human beings use the possessive "mine" the precise meaning depends on what the object in view happens to be. When I say that is "my baseball glove" it does not carry with it all the implications as when I say that is "my father." But to your point, yes parents do "own their children" and this would be patently obvious to anybody who has access to the normal human concept of nuance.

And occasionally, what parents want is not in the best interests of their child, and when that happens they should be overruled.

Chicago schools watchdog finds hundreds of employees groomed, sexually assaulted students

A newly released report found that hundreds of Chicago teachers groomed and sexually assaulted students over the 2021-22 school year.

news.yahoo.com

You were focused on a comparative non-problem.

 

[BMS]

To think we have posters on here who defend and support this mass child abuse.
Shocking

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

Parents abusing children is not an extraordinary exceptional case. Most abused children and most murdered children suffer at the hands of a family member, frequently a parent. Denial is not a valid approach to reasoning. Put simply, more parents abuse children than do teachers. It's a fact . Ask anyone who works in the criminal justice system. Authorities need to have procedures, with appropriate safeguards, to keep children safe. That includes being safe from abusive parents. And before you ask, no, I don't think that parents opposing a child's abortion or transgender is necessarily abusive. And no, I don't oppose a parent being involved in their child's care as the primary carer. And no, I don't support authorities, including schools, lying to parents without good reason supported by evidence. But I repeat, parents do not own their children. And occasionally, what parents want is not in the best interests of their child, and when that happens they should be overruled.

That is a communist concept. Red commies, the state owns the children.

 

[Thistle]

To think we have posters on here who defend and support this mass child abuse.
Shocking

What they're doing in schools is not sex education. It's kink indoctrination.

 

[Temujin]

Yep I agree with this. Support them emotionally and with counseling, but don't use puberty blockers and absolutely do not medically/surgically transition them. 90% of them are likely to grow out of this feeling in a few years so it would be nothing short of child abuse to start removing parts on a 14 year old (never mind 9 year old).

I disagree about puberty blockers. If the child does eventually decide to transition, then not having gone through puberty is a major advantage. They also prevent psychological dage of developing secondary sexual characteristics of the "wrong" sex. They are reversible and safe. They have a part to play in appropriate cases. The "removing parts" trope is a red herring. Most adults transitioning don't have radical surgery. It would be medical malpractice to carry out such surgery on a prepubescent child. I doubt it happens in a regulated medical setting anywhere.

 

[Temujin]

LOL....your CRT is already forbidding teachers from teaching history.

CRT is just another ridiculous thing that some conservatives get worked up about.