Being Forgiven

brightfame52

Well-known member
I fully agree with all that up there.
However , , and I am not trying to be argumentative here, but what I wrote earlier is still true.


JAG Wrote:

"forgiven before they were converted"__Redeemed
I understand what you mean and I understand "where you're coming from" nonetheless
the God who inspired the Bible does not want us to think of it that way and does not want
us to present it that way. The Bible nowhere says that people are forgiven BEFORE they are
converted. The notion that people are forgiven BEFORE they are converted is a conclusion
derived from a theological system and then FORCED upon the texts of Scripture. To proclaim
that people are forgiven BEFORE they are converted wrecks and destroys the way the New
Testament presents the gospel.
End JAG quote.

Question: Do you agree with what I wrote?

Best Regards.

JAG

``
People Christ died for are forgiven by His Blood before they are converted, and thats why they are converted. You doubt that Christs Blood alone forgives sins of those He died for ? Matt 26 28

28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
 

JAG

Active member
People Christ died for are forgiven by His Blood before they are converted, and thats why they are converted. You doubt that Christs Blood alone forgives sins of those He died for ? Matt 26 28

28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is
shed for many for the remission of sins.

What I said earlier is true and you merely making an assertion to the contrary does not
even so much as slightly produce a Bible verse that says people that Christ died for are
forgiven BEFORE they are converted.

JAG Previously Wrote:
"people are forgiven before they are converted"__Redeemed
I understand what you mean and I understand "where you're coming from" nonetheless
the God who inspired the Bible does not want us to think of it that way and does not want
us to present it that way. The Bible nowhere says that people are forgiven BEFORE they are
converted. The notion that people are forgiven BEFORE they are converted is a conclusion
derived from a theological system and then FORCED upon the texts of Scripture. To proclaim
that people are forgiven BEFORE they are converted wrecks and destroys the way the New
Testament presents the gospel.
End JAG quote.

Best.

JAG


PS
You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.



``

`
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What I said earlier is true and you merely making an assertion to the contrary does not
even so much as slightly produce a Bible verse that says people that Christ died for are
forgiven BEFORE they are converted.

JAG Previously Wrote:
"people are forgiven before they are converted"__Redeemed
I understand what you mean and I understand "where you're coming from" nonetheless
the God who inspired the Bible does not want us to think of it that way and does not want
us to present it that way. The Bible nowhere says that people are forgiven BEFORE they are
converted. The notion that people are forgiven BEFORE they are converted is a conclusion
derived from a theological system and then FORCED upon the texts of Scripture. To proclaim
that people are forgiven BEFORE they are converted wrecks and destroys the way the New
Testament presents the gospel.
End JAG quote.

Best.

JAG


PS
You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.



``

`
You doubt that Christs Blood alone forgives sins of those He died for ? Matt 26 28

for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Yes or No
 

JAG

Active member
You doubt that Christs Blood alone forgives sins of those He died for ? Matt 26 28

for this is my blood of the new testament,
which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Yes or No
That is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG

``
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG

``
Then answer it !
 

JAG

Active member
Then answer it !
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
Its absurd because it contradicts your beliefs ! Answer it
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Okay, looking forward to the discussion.

Best JAG

I'm back and ready to dig in. I hope you had a good weekend. I like to get the rabbit trail we seem to have gone on out of the way and get back to the OP.

Eph.1:4 "He [God] chose us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world."

Our salvation did not begin with our choice to believe in Christa choice which was real and necessary. Our salvation began before the creation of the universe when God planned the history of redemption, ordained the death and the resurrection of his Son, and chose us to be his own through Christ. That was the start Of His plan.

To say our sins were forgiven before the foundation of the world is a wrong and inaccurate use of Scripture. That's the problem with hyper Calvinism, trying to force Scripture into one's narrow view.

I'm not here to argue about Scripture with anyone. As soon as someone gets argumentative with me they go on my ignore list. And that works quite well for me. I'm here to learn more about the things of God. Right now I'm doing an in depth study on the Cross. That's why this thread is interesting to me.

I don't think it's a big deal to disagree about things. But to argue and bicker and put people down and mock them, no thanks I have better ways to waste my time. And it really makes me feel bad when I find myself going down that path. Here's one for your OP

We can add one more: 1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us
our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

When you said that you didn't mean to be argumentative I appreciated that but I can already tell that your not that kind of person. That's why I enjoy communicating with you. So what I would like to do if it's okay with you is just go back to the OP "being forgiven" or "what does God do with our sin". Because I know I'm going to learn something and it's gonna be worthwhile.
 

JAG

Active member
I'm back and ready to dig in. I hope you had a good weekend. I like to get the rabbit trail we seem to have gone on out of the way and get back to the OP.

Eph.1:4 "He [God] chose us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world."

Our salvation did not begin with our choice to believe in Christa choice which was real and necessary. Our salvation began before the creation of the universe when God planned the history of redemption, ordained the death and the resurrection of his Son, and chose us to be his own through Christ. That was the start Of His plan.

To say our sins were forgiven before the foundation of the world is a wrong and inaccurate use of Scripture. That's the problem with hyper Calvinism, trying to force Scripture into one's narrow view.

I'm not here to argue about Scripture with anyone. As soon as someone gets argumentative with me they go on my ignore list. And that works quite well for me. I'm here to learn more about the things of God. Right now I'm doing an in depth study on the Cross. That's why this thread is interesting to me.

I don't think it's a big deal to disagree about things. But to argue and bicker and put people down and mock them, no thanks I have better ways to waste my time. And it really makes me feel bad when I find myself going down that path. Here's one for your OP



When you said that you didn't mean to be argumentative I appreciated that but I can already tell that your not that kind of person. That's why I enjoy communicating with you. So what I would like to do if it's okay with you is just go back to the OP "being forgiven" or "what does God do with our sin". Because I know I'm going to learn something and it's gonna be worthwhile.
Redeemed,
Thanks for an interesting post.
Yeah we had a very good weekend -- hope you had a good one too.
Agreed that our salvation did not begin with our choice to believe in the Lord Jesus as our Savior.
Agreed that our choice was real and necessary.
Agreed that to say our sins were forgiven before the foundation of the world is a
wrong and inaccurate use of Scripture.
I'm looking forward to some interesting exchanges with you on the OP ands on other
subjects as well.

Best

JAG
 

JAG

Active member
Its absurd because it contradicts your beliefs ! Answer it
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
 

SteveB

Well-known member
"Rosalind Goforth was a well-known missionary to China who, along with her
husband Jonathan, enjoyed an illustrious career and ministry. But for many
years even having labored for the Lord in China. Rosalind often felt oppressed
by a burden of sin. She felt guilty and dirty, nursing an inward sense of
spiritual failure. Finally one evening when all was quiet, she settled at her
desk with Bible and concordance, determined to find out God's attitude
toward the failures, the faults, the sins of
His children.

She put these words at the top of the page: What God Does With Our Sins
Then as she searched through the scriptures, she compiled this list of
seventeen truths."
End quote.
__Robert J. Morgan, The Donaldson Fellowship, Nashville, TN

What God Does With Our Sins

{1} Isaiah 53:6
(He lays them on His Son, the Lord Jesus)
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

{2} John 1:29
(Christ takes them away)
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and
said, Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin
of the world!

{3} Psalm 103: 11-12
(They are removed an infinite distance from us)
For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.


{4} Jeremiah 50:20
(When sought that are not found)
In those days, at that time
declares the Lord,
search will be made for Israel's guilt,
but there will be none,
and for the sins of Judah,
but none will be found,
for I will forgive the remnant I spare.

{5} Eph. 1:7-8
(The Lord forgives them)
In him we have redemption through his blood, the
forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of
God's grace that he lavished on us."

{6} 1 John 1:7
(He cleanses them all by the blood of His Son)
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship
with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son, cleanses us from
all sin."

{7} Isaiah 1:18
(He cleanses them as white as wool and snow)
Come now, let us settle the matter,
says the Lord.
Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.

{8} Isaiah 55:6-7
(He freely pardons our sins)
Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

{9} Micah 7: 18-19
(He tramples our sins underfoot)
Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot

{10} Hebrews 10:17-18
(He remembers them no more)
Then he adds: Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin
is no longer necessary.

{11} Isaiah 38:16-17
(He casts them behind His back)
You restored me to health
and let me live.
Surely it was for my benefit
that I suffered such anguish.
In your love you kept me
from the pit of destruction;
you have put all my sins
behind your back.

{12} Micah 7:18-19
(He hurls all our sins into the depths of the sea)
Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance?
You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.
You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.

{13} Romans 4:7-8
(He will never count our sins against us)
Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.

{14} Romans 4:7
(He covers our sins)
Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.

{15} Isaiah 43:25
(He blots them out)
I, even I, am he who blots out
your transgressions, for my own sake,
and remembers your sins no more.

{16} Isaiah 44:22
(He swept them away as a thick cloud)
I have swept away your offenses like a cloud,
your sins like the morning mist.
Return to me,
for I have redeemed you.

{17} Col. 2:13-15
(He cancels out even the proof against us,
nailing it to His cross)

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of
your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our
sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which
stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing
it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he
made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

We can add one more: 1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us
our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."


God Bless.

JAG

``
Ok, I forgot about this the other day, so I want to add it now.

I consider this the best description of the new birth I've ever seen.

Ezekiel 36:25-27.

What I like about this for here is that God says he will cleanse our sin. And since that's part of forgiveness, I think it's REALLY apropos.

25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

What good is forgiveness, if we keep going over, and over, and over, and....... well.... you get it---- over again.
This is part of why what's said in Hebrews 9 is so important.

He cleanses our consciences.


14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Enjoy.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Redeemed,
Thanks for an interesting post.
Yeah we had a very good weekend -- hope you had a good one too.
Agreed that our salvation did not begin with our choice to believe in the Lord Jesus as our Savior.
Agreed that our choice was real and necessary.
Agreed that to say our sins were forgiven before the foundation of the world is a
wrong and inaccurate use of Scripture.
I'm looking forward to some interesting exchanges with you on the OP ands on other
subjects as well.

Best

JAG

What does God do with our sin? He throws it behind his back, drowns it in the sea, treads it underfoot, blots it out, forgets it, removes it, covers it, takes it away, cancels it, washes it, and forgives it. And God can do and will do all of this in the present because of one thing He did in the past.

God laid our sin on Jesus.

You, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses (COLOSSIANS 2:13).

There’s the magic word—forgiven. That word contains the only antidote to the poison of sin that flows through our soul…

The word forgiveness means to “separate.” Every one of us carries our sin with us like a ball and chain. We need someone to separate that sin from us. That is what God did at the cross of Jesus Christ…

How many of our sins were still out in the future when Jesus died? All of them. God had already factored in our sins and included them in Christ’s death. We can know we’ve been forgiven and are right with God because God has forgiven all of our sins—past, present, and future in Christ.

The key for us is to be "in Christ" abide, abide, abide in Jesus.

Make no mistake about it—we were all dead in our trespasses before God, in his mercy, redeemed us by canceling our debt, nailing it to Christ’s cross. The good news of the gospel is that all our many sins were paid for by the death of Christ. He was the sacrifice for our sins—past, present, and, yes, future. How free, then, are we from the penalty of sin? Totally free.

One of our greatest defeats over Satan’s schemes is precisely this: He can lay no charge against us that has not been answered by the cross of Christ. The cross utterly silences Satan’s accusations against us. Thus we never need be cowed or shamed again. This is the great victory Christ won for us.

And this brings me to what I believe is the best chapter in the Bible... Romans chapter 8.

I'll save it for a future post but here's a hint:

“No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us” (8:37). Note: not merely conquerors but more than conquerors, that's us.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
You won't answer it because it condemns your false beliefs. Does the blood of Christ alone forgive the sins of the ones He shed it for? Matthew Matt 26 28
 

JAG

Active member
You won't answer it because it condemns your false beliefs. Does the blood of Christ alone forgive the sins of the ones He shed it for? Matthew Matt 26 28
False.
Your "condemn" remark is False.
And False nonsense too.
Your beliefs are False.
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
False.
Your "condemn" remark is False.
And False nonsense too.
Your beliefs are False.
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
Does Jesus Christ blood alone give remission of sins? Matthew 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
 

JAG

Active member
What does God do with our sin? He throws it behind his back, drowns it in the sea, treads it underfoot, blots it out, forgets it, removes it, covers it, takes it away, cancels it, washes it, and forgives it. And God can do and will do all of this in the present because of one thing He did in the past.

God laid our sin on Jesus.

You, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses (COLOSSIANS 2:13).

There’s the magic word—forgiven. That word contains the only antidote to the poison of sin that flows through our soul…

The word forgiveness means to “separate.” Every one of us carries our sin with us like a ball and chain. We need someone to separate that sin from us. That is what God did at the cross of Jesus Christ…

How many of our sins were still out in the future when Jesus died? All of them. God had already factored in our sins and included them in Christ’s death. We can know we’ve been forgiven and are right with God because God has forgiven all of our sins—past, present, and future in Christ.

The key for us is to be "in Christ" abide, abide, abide in Jesus.

Make no mistake about it—we were all dead in our trespasses before God, in his mercy, redeemed us by canceling our debt, nailing it to Christ’s cross. The good news of the gospel is that all our many sins were paid for by the death of Christ. He was the sacrifice for our sins—past, present, and, yes, future. How free, then, are we from the penalty of sin? Totally free.

One of our greatest defeats over Satan’s schemes is precisely this: He can lay no charge against us that has not been answered by the cross of Christ. The cross utterly silences Satan’s accusations against us. Thus we never need be cowed or shamed again. This is the great victory Christ won for us.

And this brings me to what I believe is the best chapter in the Bible... Romans chapter 8.

I'll save it for a future post but here's a hint:

“No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us” (8:37). Note: not merely conquerors but more than conquerors, that's us.

I read your post very carefully and I think its a magnificent statement and I fully agree with
all of it.

I love Romans 8 and have most of it highlighted. In fact I love the entire book of Romans
and believe it is crucial to understanding the gospel, the New Testament, and the entire
Bible.

Later , , ,

JAG

``
 

JAG

Active member
Does Jesus Christ blood alone give remission of sins? Matthew 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I told you your question is an absurd nonsense question in light of the issue at hand which
is this issue right here:

You either have a Bible verse that says the people that Christ died for are forgiven BEFORE they
are converted or you do NOT have one --- the truth is you do NOT have one. Why not? Because
there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the people that Christ died for were forgiven BEFORE
they were converted.

JAG
You are afraid to answer it.
 
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