Belief comes before regeneration, salvation

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Of course another gospel has no saving power
Yes no transformation- no power over sin.

John 8:36
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

So if Jesus sets one free what does that mean in ones life ?

Strong's Concordance
eleutheros: free, i.e. not a slave or not under restraint
Original Word: ἐλεύθερος, έρα, ερον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: eleutheros
Phonetic Spelling: (el-yoo'-ther-os)
Definition: free, not a slave or not under restraint
Usage: free, delivered from obligation.

NASB Translation
exempt (1), free (12), free man (2), free men (3), free woman (4), freeman (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1658: ἐλεύθερος

ἐλεύθερος, ἐλευθέρα, ἐλεύθερον (ἘΛΑΥΘΩ equivalent to ἔρχομαι (so Curtius, p. 497, after Etym. Magn. 329, 43; Suidas col. 1202 a., Gaisf. edition; but others besides, cf. Vanicek, p. 61); hence, properly, one who can go whither he pleases) (from Homer down), the Sept. for חָפְשִׁי, free;
1. freeborn; in a civil sense, one who is not a slave: John 8:33; 1 Corinthians 7:22; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:11; Revelation 6:15; Revelation 13:16; Revelation 19:18; feminine, Galatians 4:22f, 30f. (opposed to ἡ παιδίσκη); of one who ceases to be a slave, freed, manumitted: γίνεσθαι ἐλεύθερον, 1 Corinthians 7:21.

2. free, exempt, unrestrained, not bound by an obligation: 1 Corinthians 9:1; ἐκ πάντων (see ἐκ, I. 6 at the end), 1 Corinthians 9:19; ἀπό τίνος, free from i. e. no longer under obligation to, so that one may now do what was formerly forbidden by the person or thing to which he was bound, Romans 7:3 (cf. Winers Grammar, 196f (185); Buttmann, 157f (138), 269 (231)); followed by an infinitive (Winers Grammar, 319 (299); Buttmann, 260 (224)), ἐλευθέρα ἐστιν ... γαμηθῆναι she is free to be married, has liberty to marry, 1 Corinthians 7:39; exempt from paying tribute or tax, Matthew 17:26.

3. in an ethical sense: free from the yoke of the Mosaic law, Galatians 4:26; 1 Peter 2:16; from the bondage of sin, John 8:36; left to one's own will and pleasure, with the dative of respect, τῇ δικαιοσύνη, so far as relates to righteousness, as respects righteousness, Romans 6:20 (Winers Grammar, § 31, 1 k.; Buttmann, § 133, 12).
 

fltom

Well-known member
That’s awesome! 🤣😂

And so true!
And you imagine it is better to tell them God unconditionally selected a few for salvation but most he predestined to eternal torment based on what he determined they would do and be and there was nothing they could do about it
It will float like a lead balloon
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
And you imagine it is better to tell them God unconditionally selected a few for salvation but most he predestined to eternal torment based on what he determined they would do and be and there was nothing they could do about it
It will float like a lead balloon
they can't tell anyone lost what they really believe lol
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
1 Pet 5:8
2 Cor 2:11

1Pet. 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

2Cor. 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Just for clarification...
Are you claiming Calvinists are demonic?

Weren't you the one who just posted:

I don't use ad hominems like I use to as a calvinist.

?
 

Carbon

Well-known member
And you imagine it is better to tell them God unconditionally selected a few for salvation but most he predestined to eternal torment based on what he determined they would do and be and there was nothing they could do about it
It will float like a lead balloon
Lol. You have no idea what your talking about. Let a Calvinist speak for calvinists. Lol.

next 😂🤣😁
 

fltom

Well-known member
1Pet. 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

2Cor. 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Just for clarification...
Are you claiming Calvinists are demonic?

Weren't you the one who just posted:



?
Looking for stealth insults?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Lol. Yea ok, uh huh. 😎
Are you going to deny it?

The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should: why he deemed it meet, we know not. It

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life


hope this helps !!!

God uses a believing mind (belief) to form a relationship with His children and make them over in His image.

Belief is a perfect gift of God to make His truth and reality known to believers.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Are you going to deny it?

The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should: why he deemed it meet, we know not. It

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).
Deny what? You have no idea what your talking about really.

Are you suggesting the first man fell outside of God’s control? So we know and have the answers?
okay Tom. Explain it to me.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Deny what? You have no idea what your talking about really.

Are you suggesting the first man fell outside of God’s control? So we know and have the answers?
okay Tom. Explain it to me.
Deny that Adam fell because God deemed that he should

There is but one real actor in your theological play and many props
 
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