Belief vs faith?

Aaron32

Active member
I've given you the definition many times. This is how I say it. If one does not do what one believes, then they don't believe. Belief, in itself, is not enough.
While I don’t believe this statement is wrong, I believe there’s some other concepts I not identified that could make this definition potentially problematic for someone to understand our beliefs. Primarily, I don’t believe it accounts for the weakness of the flesh.

Matt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Why is our flesh weak?
Ether 12:27
“And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.”

Our choice in humility and our submission is the real expression of our faith, when we make a choice to give into the desires of our flesh or keep the commandments.

Mosiah 3:19
“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.”

Grace is the enabling power that causes us to obey. (See BD Grace)
Prayer is the bringing our will in alignment with God’s will. (See BD Prayer)

Even so, it’s easy to forget, and our sins easily “beset us”, but we trust in our Redeemer.
2 Ne 4:
18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.
19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.

Thus, not wallowing in our guilt is also an expression of faith, maintaining our hope, and forgiving the sins of others as ours are forgiven is also an expression of faith.

These could probably be considered “works” in the Spirit, rather than in the flesh. And it’s the light of Christ that leads us to do good.

D&C 11:
11 For, behold, it is I that speak; behold, I am the light which shineth in darkness, and by my power I give these words unto thee.
12 And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit.

To really get to the heart of the matter in our difference with our Christians not of our faith isn’t faith alone, but rather “irresistible grace”.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
While I don’t believe this statement is wrong, I believe there’s some other concepts I not identified that could make this definition potentially problematic for someone to understand our beliefs. Primarily, I don’t believe it accounts for the weakness of the flesh.
if you mean, impossible to do because of the weakness of the flesh, then I agree. One cannot honor parents they don't have and thus, due to the weakness of the flesh, it's impossible to keep that commandment. Another would be parents who through their actions are not honorable, it would be impossible to keep that commandment. Another would be, through not even knowing the commandment to begin with, it is not possible to keep it.

But regardless, if one doesn't do what one believes, then it is apparent that they don't believe. I claim I believe in the teachings of Christ to love one another, but I don't do them. How then, can I claim that I believe?
Matt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
I'm not seeing a relationship between doing what one believes and falling short of our own expectations. If one believes, then they will continue to watch and pray even after they fall into temptation, because they will fall. It is the belief in Christ's teachings and doing them that makes the difference.
Why is our flesh weak?
Ether 12:27
“And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.”
I believe we're weak because we are mortal and ignorant of our origins. God gave us this weakness. But if one believes, then he will be humble. If he doesn't, then he will reject anything that he can't do for himself and sees the grave as the end of all things pertaining to life.
Grace is the enabling power that causes us to obey. (See BD Grace)
At this point, I got lost in your post. I'm not sure what your point is. The scriptures tell us that belief is not enough to save us. Devils believe and tremble but it isn't going to do them any good. My point is that it's not enough to claim belief. One must actually do what they believe or it is just lip service.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
To really get to the heart of the matter in our difference with our Christians not of our faith isn’t faith alone, but rather “irresistible grace”.

You speak a great deal (errantly) about "Christians not of [your] faith".

If what you say is true, then you would have no differences with non-Calvinists (eg. Arminians).

I would suggest you REFRAIN from making (OFF-TOPIC) remarks about "Christians not of [your] faith" until you first LEARN what they actually believe.
 
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