Believing In An Actual Jesus

Dant01

Member
.
1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

2Tim 1:12 . . I know whom I have believed

Paul could honestly say those things because he experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus. (Acts 9:3-6, 22:6-10, and 26:12-18)

Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt,
that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_
 

civic

Active member
.
1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

2Tim 1:12 . . I know whom I have believed

Paul could honestly say those things because he experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus. (Acts 9:3-6, 22:6-10, and 26:12-18)

Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt,
that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_
I can say with 100% certainty that the Jesus I believe in is the Real Authentic Jesus of the Apostles.

Jesus claims to be God

John 5:16-18

So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:24

I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58-59
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am !
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

John 10:33
"We are not stoning You for any good work," said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God."

John 19:7
"We have a law," answered the Jews, "and according to that law He must die, because He declared Himself to be the Son of God."

The Apostles testifying Jesus is God !

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28

Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.


2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

hope this helps !!!
 

GeneZ

Member
.
1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

2Tim 1:12 . . I know whom I have believed

Paul could honestly say those things because he experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus. (Acts 9:3-6, 22:6-10, and 26:12-18)

Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt,
that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_



The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again;
rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by
him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that
we are God’s children."
Romans 8:15-16


That is why many Christians can know that Jesus is real. We are not joining some club where we must learn a program. Its not religion. We enter into a new life.

Its supernatural life. What we know? Its a "gift."


For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.




Ever see a gifted person performing some talent? They can not explain to you how they can do what they do. They simply discovered one day that they have the gift.

One sure sign that you are saved is that you can comprehend the Word of God. To the unbeliever its empty nonsense.

You would not be concerned about Jesus being real if God were not with you! Unbelievers shrug at the thought.
 

Gary Mac

Member
.
1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

2Tim 1:12 . . I know whom I have believed

Paul could honestly say those things because he experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus. (Acts 9:3-6, 22:6-10, and 26:12-18)

Well, to be honest about it; I have never once experienced a close encounter with
a real Jesus like Paul did. So I cannot attest, beyond a shadow of sensible doubt,
that the Jesus I believe in is authentic.
_
Jim Jones and David Koresh did the same as Paul with a close encountrer with the reral Jesus, LOL. Truth in Jesus is have you recieved from God the same as he did in Matt 3:16 when God opend all of His heaven to that man as He does in all who recieve the same as he did.
Paul, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Osteen, Billt Gram, you name it if you are not as Jesus was in the Father then you are of a different religion srom Him.
 

Dant01

Member
.
John 5:16-18 “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am
working.”

How do you know for sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual
Jesus actually said those actual words?

And if an actual Jesus actually did say those actual words; how do you know for
sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to have actually
said is actually true?
_
 

GeneZ

Member
.


How do you know for sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual
Jesus actually said those actual words?

And if an actual Jesus actually did say those actual words; how do you know for
sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to have actually
said is actually true?
_
I, and many others, have not that problem...

"All things have been committed to me by my Father.
No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one
knows the Father except the Son and those to whom
the Son chooses to reveal him."
Mat 11:27

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one
who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my
Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."
John 14:21


Don't quit and keep looking until you find a pastor who can really teach soundly. Rare, but they exist today..

The more the teachings of sound doctrine you are fed, the more the Spirit will open your eyes.

The "revealing" is done in the Spirit. You just know it. And, you will know that you have been made to know it. Its by grace.
 

Dant01

Member
.
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except
the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the
Son chooses to reveal him."Mat 11:27

How do you know for sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual
Jesus actually said those actual words?

And if an actual Jesus actually did say those actual words; how do you know for
sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to have actually
said is actually true?


The "revealing" is done in the Spirit. You just know it.

Just knowing something doesn't prove for sure, beyond a hint of sensible doubt, that
something is actually true.
_
 

Dant01

Member
.
In my opinion, people claiming to be Christians are not true people of faith until
they are able to stand up and honestly admit that many of the things they believe
cannot be proven true in a court of law; or any other venue for that matter.
_
 
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GeneZ

Member
.
In my opinion, people claiming to be Christians are not true people of faith until
they are able to stand up and honestly admit that many of the things they believe
cannot be proven true in a court of law; or any other venue for that matter.
_
They can not be proven before atheists.....

I think you are here for other reasons.
 

civic

Active member
.


How do you know for sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual
Jesus actually said those actual words?

And if an actual Jesus actually did say those actual words; how do you know for
sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to have actually
said is actually true?
_
I believe Jesus words below :

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM


John 15:26

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.


hope this helps !!!
 

GeneZ

Member
.


How do you know for sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual
Jesus actually said those actual words?

And if an actual Jesus actually did say those actual words; how do you know for
sure, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to have actually
said is actually true?



Just knowing something doesn't prove for sure, beyond a hint of sensible doubt, that
something is actually true.
_
Sir. I was born a Jew. Had no Christian indoctrination while growing up. Never read the New Testament.


When in college I was handed a tract. I remember reading it while walking to class. I decided that I wanted to say the prayer for salvation. I just wanted to. I was not expecting anything from doing so. I walked along thinking of myself still as a Jew.

Then not long after that I began to have dreams and visions. It perplexed me. I was shown in one dream what turned out to be my life's future unfold before me.

In that dream I saw running into a place for shelter that had unique characteristics. I spent the next ten painful years searching to find out what it could mean. I tried all sorts of concepts and groups during those years. Then, this time without looking, my sister had also become a Christian. She opened up her home for a Bible study. A group of Bible college students were giving the study. I was invited to visit the school after having a conversation with one of the students...

Long story short. What I was shown in that dream ten years earlier turned out to be the Bible college. Yet, ten years earlier it was not a Bible college.

Now you can tell any court room that I am not on trial. Its not where such matters are settled.
 
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Dant01

Member
I believe Jesus words below

How do you know for sure, beyond a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual Jesus
actually said those words? And if an actual Jesus actually did say those words; how
do you know for sure, beyond a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to
have said is actually true?


BTW: Quoting your religion's beliefs to defend your religion's beliefs is called
circular reasoning. It's sort of like a judge acquitting a prisoner based upon the
accused man saying he didn't do it.
_
 

Dant01

Member
.
Faith is believin' somethin' that ain't so.
(Mark Twain)

People all 'round the globe are fulfilling Twain's observation.

Muslims believe the Koran is 100% reliable. Hindus believe the Vedas are 100% reliable. Mormons believe the Book Of Mormon is 100% reliable. Jews believe the Talmud is 100% reliable. Christians believe the New Testament is 100% reliable. Buddhists believe Dharma is 100% reliable.

The thing is, religions that deal with paranormal activity (a.k.a. the supernatural) are beyond the scope of empirical evidence.

Every so often I get asked how I know that my religion is right. My answer is: I don't know if it's right. Then of course they want to know how it is that I believe in my religion when I don't know whether it's right.

That's a fair inquiry. Most of the people who ask me those kinds of questions are genuine; they're not trying to trip me up and make a fool out of me. They are honestly curious. So I tell them, in so many words, that though I don't know if my religion is right, my conscience tells me it is; in other words: I cannot shake the conviction that the religion I believe in is right.

Why does anybody believe what they believe? Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Bahá'í, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, Judaism, Voodoo, Wiccan, Jain, Druze, Native American, etc, etc, etc. The answer? Because it grips their heart-- the core of their being --which is very different than persuading someone with logic and reasoning.

People brought into a religion by logic and reasoning can be taken away from it by logic and reasoning. But someone whose heart is gripped by their religion, is not so easily removed regardless of how strong the opposition's argument

I've heard it said, by more than one pundit, that voters typically select political candidates based upon how they feel about them; and then use thinking to defend their choices; which is doubtless whey there is so much debating in the sphere of religion. When people defend their religion, it's likely they're actually protecting their feelings about their religion; and of course we all know that emotions are incoherent.

For example: back in the early 1980s,I attended a special class called "How To Witness To Jehovah's Witnesses" taught by a lecturer who had been in that system for nearly three decades.

The former Witness didn't train us to hammer JWs in a debate because even if you best them scripture for scripture, they will not give up on the Watchtower Society. Their unflinching premise is that the Society is right even when it appears to be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced in their own hearts that the Society is the voice of God, while the oppositions' voices have no more validity than that of a squeaky little gerbil.

It's said that the pen is mightier than the sword. Well; it's been my personal observation that, in matters related to religion, the heart is mightier than the mind.
_
 

GeneZ

Member
.
Faith is believin' somethin' that ain't so.
(Mark Twain)

People all 'round the globe are fulfilling Twain's observation.

Muslims believe the Koran is 100% reliable. Hindus believe the Vedas are 100% reliable. Mormons believe the Book Of Mormon is 100% reliable. Jews believe the Talmud is 100% reliable. Christians believe the New Testament is 100% reliable. Buddhists believe Dharma is 100% reliable.

The thing is, religions that deal with paranormal activity (a.k.a. the supernatural) are beyond the scope of empirical evidence.

Every so often I get asked how I know that my religion is right. My answer is: I don't know if it's right. Then of course they want to know how it is that I believe in my religion when I don't know whether it's right.

That's a fair inquiry. Most of the people who ask me those kinds of questions are genuine; they're not trying to trip me up and make a fool out of me. They are honestly curious. So I tell them, in so many words, that though I don't know if my religion is right, my conscience tells me it is; in other words: I cannot shake the conviction that the religion I believe in is right.

Why does anybody believe what they believe? Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Bahá'í, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, Judaism, Voodoo, Wiccan, Jain, Druze, Native American, etc, etc, etc. The answer? Because it grips their heart-- the core of their being --which is very different than persuading someone with logic and reasoning.

People brought into a religion by logic and reasoning can be taken away from it by logic and reasoning. But someone whose heart is gripped by their religion, is not so easily removed regardless of how strong the opposition's argument

I've heard it said, by more than one pundit, that voters typically select political candidates based upon how they feel about them; and then use thinking to defend their choices; which is doubtless whey there is so much debating in the sphere of religion. When people defend their religion, it's likely they're actually protecting their feelings about their religion; and of course we all know that emotions are incoherent.

For example: back in the early 1980s,I attended a special class called "How To Witness To Jehovah's Witnesses" taught by a lecturer who had been in that system for nearly three decades.

The former Witness didn't train us to hammer JWs in a debate because even if you best them scripture for scripture, they will not give up on the Watchtower Society. Their unflinching premise is that the Society is right even when it appears to be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced in their own hearts that the Society is the voice of God, while the oppositions' voices have no more validity than that of a squeaky little gerbil.

It's said that the pen is mightier than the sword. Well; it's been my personal observation that, in matters related to religion, the heart is mightier than the mind.
_

You're not a Christian I take it? You're here to see how you can harass Christians, perhaps?

You asked about proving my faith in a court of law? It was a court of Law that murdered Jesus Christ.

Now, what is your real purpose here?
 

civic

Active member
How do you know for sure, beyond a hint of sensible doubt, that an actual Jesus
actually said those words? And if an actual Jesus actually did say those words; how
do you know for sure, beyond a hint of sensible doubt, that what he is alleged to
have said is actually true?


BTW: Quoting your religion's beliefs to defend your religion's beliefs is called
circular reasoning. It's sort of like a judge acquitting a prisoner based upon the
accused man saying he didn't do it.
_
There are historical facts outside of the bible that verify the existence of Jesus and His death by the cross in both Jewish sources by the historian Josephus and by Tacitus the Roman Historian. Plus we have plenty of sources by the direct disciples of the Apostles in their writings. And when we take into consideration the biblical accounts we can conclude that we have a more accurate historical description of the life of Christ with more evidence than all other historical people of antiquity combined.

Now take into consideration the following truths we can mine from Scripture and the historical records.

Paul testifies that the gospel message is centered in the bodily Resurrection of Jesus as per 1 Corinthians 15 and other places in the N.T. His appearances are the evidence Paul uses to make His case in the first 8 opening verses in that chapter. Here are those facts he presents in order and he even leaves out the appearances to the women.

1- and that he appeared to Cephas,
2- and then to the Twelve.
3- After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
4- Then he appeared to James,
5-then to all the apostles,
6-and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

a-So we know the tomb was empty.
b-Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have
c- He showed them His hands, feet and side which still retained His Crucifixion marks
d- the above proves it was the same body in the tomb that was raised back to life
e- scripture says His body did not undergo decay
f- His resurrected body was changed to become immortal, incorruptible and imperishable. A Glorified Spiritual body of flesh and bones

So having the above truth and facts regarding Jesus Resurrection we can eliminate all the theories which deny it.

1- What person knowing the Resurrection of Jesus was a lie would suffer torture and death ?
2- We have 3 separate groups of people gathered together at different times as eyewitness account of Jesus Resurrection
3- Knowing the Resurrection was true is the only explanation for being willing to suffer and die for Christ
4- Last but not least is the fact that these men and women’s lives were drastically changes forever by the power of Jesus Resurrection. Their lives were transformed from denying Christ to be willing to suffer and die for Him as Jesus had promised them would happen.

hope this helps!!!
 

GeneZ

Member
There are historical facts outside of the bible that verify the existence of Jesus and His death by the cross in both Jewish sources by the historian Josephus and by Tacitus the Roman Historian. Plus we have plenty of sources by the direct disciples of the Apostles in their writings. And when we take into consideration the biblical accounts we can conclude that we have a more accurate historical description of the life of Christ with more evidence than all other historical people of antiquity combined.

Now take into consideration the following truths we can mine from Scripture and the historical records.

Paul testifies that the gospel message is centered in the bodily Resurrection of Jesus as per 1 Corinthians 15 and other places in the N.T. His appearances are the evidence Paul uses to make His case in the first 8 opening verses in that chapter. Here are those facts he presents in order and he even leaves out the appearances to the women.

1- and that he appeared to Cephas,
2- and then to the Twelve.
3- After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
4- Then he appeared to James,
5-then to all the apostles,
6-and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

a-So we know the tomb was empty.
b-Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have
c- He showed them His hands, feet and side which still retained His Crucifixion marks
d- the above proves it was the same body in the tomb that was raised back to life
e- scripture says His body did not undergo decay
f- His resurrected body was changed to become immortal, incorruptible and imperishable. A Glorified Spiritual body of flesh and bones

So having the above truth and facts regarding Jesus Resurrection we can eliminate all the theories which deny it.

1- What person knowing the Resurrection of Jesus was a lie would suffer torture and death ?
2- We have 3 separate groups of people gathered together at different times as eyewitness account of Jesus Resurrection
3- Knowing the Resurrection was true is the only explanation for being willing to suffer and die for Christ
4- Last but not least is the fact that these men and women’s lives were drastically changes forever by the power of Jesus Resurrection. Their lives were transformed from denying Christ to be willing to suffer and die for Him as Jesus had promised them would happen.

hope this helps!!!
You can not win an argument with someone who is deaf to certain frequencies...

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God
but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned
only through the Spirit."
1 Corinthians 2:14

We are to know these truths as to spare us of wasting too much time. We can try...

But, we are commanded to redeem the time.

It does not matter if the other perceives you as a snob when we stop trying. For they will not be able to become a friend and will remain an enemy to the Truth as long as they resist God's drawing.

Too many Christians see Truth as being "common sense." It baffles Christians when others can not see what has been made obvious to them by grace. They fail to recognize that their perception ability was blessed by God. It just seems so normal to understand certain truths...
 

Dant01

Member
.
Someone once informed me that they knew Jesus was real because they spoke with
him just that morning. So I asked them about Jesus' voice. Is it bass, baritone, or
tenor? Does he speak with an accent? Does he speak slowly, calming, and
deliberately, or does he blurt out his words rapidly, like a tommy gun? Are his
words clearly articulated or smudgy? Is he loud, strong, and assertive; or civil and
agreeable?

Well; they didn't respond because that someone didn't really speak with Jesus;
rather, they spoke to an imaginary playmate.
_
 

GeneZ

Member
.
Someone once informed me that they knew Jesus was real because they spoke with
him just that morning. So I asked them about Jesus' voice. Is it bass, baritone, or
tenor? Does he speak with an accent? Does he speak slowly, calming, and
deliberately, or does he blurt out his words rapidly, like a tommy gun? Are his
words clearly articulated or smudgy? Is he loud, strong, and assertive; or civil and
agreeable?

Well; they didn't respond because that someone didn't really speak with Jesus;
rather, they spoke to an imaginary playmate.
_
What is your problem? I met a woman who claimed Mary came to her in her room at night. When I told her that was not possible, her father and brother had to hold her down because she went into a rage. Guess what? God saves the mentally ill if they have enough sense to know they need to believe in Jesus.

Are you saved?
 
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