Believing In An Actual Jesus

Dant01

Active member
.
Another person I encountered online said they hear God's still small voice in their
mind when at prayer. Well; I suggested that maybe they should seek counseling
from a mental health professional if perchance they were experiencing onset
schizophrenia.


NOTE: Mother Teresa went as a missionary on the strength of a number of "interior
imaginative locutions" she claims to have received from Christ himself beginning in
Sept of 1946 and ending some time in 1947.

Locutions are neither apparitions nor visions: they're imaginations, i.e. daydreams,
viz: they are neither visual nor are they audio. Teresa never actually heard
anything with her own ears nor saw an apparition with her own eyes.

The locutions ceased once Teresa got a post in India and for the next five decades
she experienced not so much as a glimmer of the Lord's presence; which eventually
caused her quite a bit of anxiety, and doubts as to whether her coming to India was
a mistake. (Along with that, she also began to question if there really is a God out
there.)

Her anxiety became so stressful and confusing that in the final weeks of her life,
Teresa, at the urging of Henry D'Souza, the Archbishop of Calcutta (a.k.a. Kolkata),
agreed to an exorcism-- performed by Father Rosario Stroscio --if perchance
demons were clouding her mind. Father Stroscio, 79, is reported to have said
Mother Teresa appeared dazed, and behaving strangely at the time of the exorcism.

The ritual wasn't performed to rid Teresa of possession, rather, to ward off any
demons that might be pestering her so she could have some peace of mind.

My point is: relying too much upon voices and/or scenes taking place in one's mind
(e.g. locutions) can be risky because if and when they cease, the silence can lead
one to worry whether God doesn't like you anymore.
_
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
My point is: relying too much upon voices and/or scenes taking place in one's mind
(e.g. locutions) can be risky because if and when they cease, the silence can lead
one to worry whether God doesn't like you anymore.
_
The greatest indication that one's faith is genuine, is that you can understand good Bible teaching in a personalized way. Not as some mere academic feat. Finding oneself able to personally identify with certain people the Bible speaks of, rather than simply acknowledging them as having been mythological and unusual souls.

One must rely solely sound teaching. Not experiences, though there can be some one has in their lifetime. It would have been like the Jews neglecting the Torah and in place of it gathering for holidays concerning things like the miracle of the parting of the Red Sea.

Being able to grasp and comprehend advanced teaching of Bible doctrine is a sure sign you are on the right side of the Lord. Too many Christians only desire the milk of the Word with a pat on the head. Sounds harsh. But, its true.

The type of person you mentioned I used to find as odd (and somewhat repulsive) curiosities when I first got involved with Christianity. I was later relieved to learn that they were most likely suffering from some sort of 'benevolent form of mental illness' and were not living as the Word tells us to live. I wanted no part of it. It also turned me off even more so to the Catholic church who loves fantasy religion.
 
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Gary Mac

Well-known member
My point is: relying too much upon voices and/or scenes taking place in one's mind
(e.g. locutions) can be risky because if and when they cease, the silence can lead
one to worry whether God doesn't like you anymore.
_
Paul had that problem, hearing voices and came up with his own laws to regulate his beliefs.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Paul had that problem, hearing voices and came up with his own laws to regulate his beliefs.
Seems like you and Paul have that in common at least. I'm thinking there's a lot more you have in common with Paul. I think you had your own "on the road to Damascus" experience, the one you told me about.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Seems like you and Paul have that in common at least. I'm thinking there's a lot more you have in common with Paul. I think you had your own "on the road to Damascus" experience, the one you told me about.
Actually I hear the same thing from God Jesus heard of Him. Jesus told us that in that day ye shall ASK ME NOTHING but go to the Father for myself and He will givew it me. I did and He did. Paul on the other hand made hsi won laws for sin wome, hair, that Jesus never made. paul even went as far to say he used trickery to get people to follow him, do you really believe that Jesus used trickery? You really cant see the difference from Jesus and Paul for to you Paul was the better teacher onvious in your defence of him instead of Jesus.

And I didnt have an on the road demascus experience, I had the same experience Jesus had in the Father in Matt 3:16. This is the oon that you cant understand because Paul is your way instead.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Actually I hear the same thing from God Jesus heard of Him. Jesus told us that in that day ye shall ASK ME NOTHING but go to the Father for myself and He will givew it me. I did and He did. Paul on the other hand made hsi won laws for sin wome, hair, that Jesus never made. paul even went as far to say he used trickery to get people to follow him, do you really believe that Jesus used trickery? You really cant see the difference from Jesus and Paul for to you Paul was the better teacher onvious in your defence of him instead of Jesus.

And I didnt have an on the road demascus experience, I had the same experience Jesus had in the Father in Matt 3:16. This is the oon that you cant understand because Paul is your way instead.
Ok have it you way but when did you hear from God and what happened to you right before that? There is some stuff I under about your trip because you told me.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Ok have it you way but when did you hear from God and what happened to you right before that? There is some stuff I under about your trip because you told me.
No' not my way as I keep trying to convet you as Jesus tried, His way. is sufficient His way is not our way. His way is to be as He is. T

he revelation of the Christ is exactly that Christ revealed in you, Christ manifest in you just as He was manifest in Jesus, which simply is Gods anointing., you anointed of God, or is supposed to be .

If you are refering to my trip as in death, there is two of them. the first death is to self, the second death is of the flesh man. Been on both sides of that equation. You cant know the second death least you have been through the first one. death to self the second one is your body returning to dust.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
Paul had that problem, hearing voices and came up with his own laws to regulate
his beliefs.

How can you be 100% certain, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that John
didn't have that problem, hearing voices and coming up with his own laws to
regulate his beliefs?
_
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
.


How can you be 100% certain, beyond even a hint of sensible doubt, that John
didn't have that problem, hearing voices and coming up with his own laws to
regulate his beliefs?
_
This isnt rocket science -- from what I read of John he walked this earth with Jesus and heard direct and quoted from him. Paul only heard voices from his own mind not from his ears in a real time walk with Jesus as John did.
 

civic

Well-known member
Actually I hear the same thing from God Jesus heard of Him. Jesus told us that in that day ye shall ASK ME NOTHING but go to the Father for myself and He will givew it me. I did and He did. Paul on the other hand made hsi won laws for sin wome, hair, that Jesus never made. paul even went as far to say he used trickery to get people to follow him, do you really believe that Jesus used trickery? You really cant see the difference from Jesus and Paul for to you Paul was the better teacher onvious in your defence of him instead of Jesus.

And I didnt have an on the road demascus experience, I had the same experience Jesus had in the Father in Matt 3:16. This is the oon that you cant understand because Paul is your way instead.
oh boy now the Holy Spirit descended upon you like a dove while you were being baptized in the Jordan by John and the Father said this is my beloved son whom I am well pleased hear ye him.

yikes...........................

the blasphemies continue another day on planet CARM
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
oh boy now the Holy Spirit descended upon you like a dove while you were being baptized in the Jordan by John and the Father said this is my beloved son whom I am well pleased hear ye him.

yikes...........................

the blasphemies continue another day on planet CARM
What some idiots do not understand about Paul was that Paul was facing an entirely different mind set that Jesus faced. Jesus did not have to deal with Jews in certain ways because as a people they had been conditioned under the Law of Moses for many centuries. Jesus did not have to take a sexually perverted people and straighten them out like Paul faced. The Jews were already having a strong foundation of morals that Jesus could simply teach and build upon.

In Ephesus? The Ephesians were an entirely different foundation. They were amoral by culture. When Paul speaks of no foolish jesting? No foolish talking among them? They had a highly charged sexuality knowing no bounds. Paul was telling them no foolish joking as means to arouse someone sexually with words in a joking way! Foolish jesting had to do with tactile jesting. Touching another jokingly that was used to tease and arouse another sexually! Their pagan temples involved male prostitutes, female prostitutes, child prostitutes, and even animals for sex as a means for worship and religious obligation. Some of their coinage in that day had fertility gods pictured on them. Bisexuality was seen as a norm.

Jesus did not face that to deal with!


Jesus did not face that type of person with the Jews. Damn straight Paul had a different message than Jesus! God was cleaning up a huge swamp with Paul's ministry. That is why Paul was sent to the Gentiles because he knew the Roman culture. Peter would never been able to handle it without Paul going first.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
oh boy now the Holy Spirit descended upon you like a dove while you were being baptized in the Jordan by John and the Father said this is my beloved son whom I am well pleased hear ye him.

There is no other way but by His Spirit. Adam received His Spirit and became like Him, see Gen 3:22. He came to Abraham by the same Spirit, He came to Moses by the same Spirit who came to Jesus, He came to Mary by the same Spirit, He came to Jesus by the same Spirit in Matt 3:16, He came to 120 in an upper room by the same Spirit.

And Jesus was clear the one at your door knocking this day will come to you as well as He did all of these and sup with you and be in you but by your comment you dont have a clue how He does that.

His Spirit has not descended on you as He did all of these and all today who will receive Him has He? That is very obvious in your mockery of how He does come to man and opens His kingdom to us. Jesus was clear the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation it is within you, or is supposed to be in you but that isnt possible for you by that comment about Him and how He does come to man. .

He will come to you to if you will set aside your pride in your religious mind and receive Him as Jesus did as you are supposed to, He in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was one in Him see John 17.
yikes...........................

the blasphemies continue another day on planet CARM
Yes just as you have blasphemed His Spirit in this very reply.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
In the past some people were institutionalized for having a Napoleon complex. Delusion is a strange thing to behold.

The Holy Spirit in us can do no more with us than we have willingly grown into knowing by grace and knowledge of sound doctrine. It must be sound doctrine for the Holy Spirit to use us. He can have nothing to do with false doctrines... no matter how pleasing they may be to our natural ears.

Why is that?

Because, His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. Sound Doctrine transforms our thinking!

The Holy Spirit will use us to do, what in our natural way, would make us intimidated in our natural self, or opposed to it.


“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isa 55:8-9



☝️
Watch out for those who deify their own feelings and thoughts, and then attribute it to the Holy Spirit. They have a God complex.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
In the past some people were institutionalized for having a Napoleon complex. Delusion is a strange thing to behold.

The Holy Spirit in us can do no more with us than we have willingly grown into knowing by grace and knowledge of sound doctrine. It must be sound doctrine for the Holy Spirit to use us. He can have nothing to do with false doctrines... no matter how pleasing they may be to our natural ears.

Why is that?

Because, His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. Sound Doctrine transforms our thinking!

The Holy Spirit will use us to do, what in our natural way, would make us intimidated in our natural self, or opposed to it.


“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isa 55:8-9



☝️
Watch out for those who deify their own feelings and thoughts, and then attribute it to the Holy Spirit. They have a God complex.
But when we become like Him by His same Spirit to have His same mind, same walk as He walks in His same light, perfect even as our Father in haven is perfect, then His ways become our ways. there is no oter way to know God at all least you are like Him as Jesus was like Him. See Jesus prayer to his God for us to be in John 17, H ein you and you in Him as one. If you are one in Him then all He has is your own.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
Paul only heard voices from his own mind not from his ears in a real time walk with
Jesus as John did.

And you believe this John fellow was telling the truth? How can you be 100%
certain, beyond any hint of reasonable doubt, that the gospel of John isn't the
literary work of a clever tale spinner akin to Joseph Smith, Stephenie Meyer, and/or
Stephen King?

You see your claim, that this John fellow heard a Jesus with his own ears in real
time walking with him, can't be verified true and reliable. The fact of the matter is;
you are taking the word of a stranger whom you've never met, and basing your
claim upon the assumption that the man's story isn't a complete fantasy.
_
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
This isnt rocket science -- from what I read of John he walked this earth with Jesus and heard direct and quoted from him. Paul only heard voices from his own mind not from his ears in a real time walk with Jesus as John did.
Judge not lest you be judged.

How should have God judged Paul?

Tell us. Let's see how God should judge you.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
.


And you believe this John fellow was telling the truth? How can you be 100%
certain, beyond any hint of reasonable doubt, that the gospel of John isn't the
literary work of a clever tale spinner akin to Joseph Smith, Stephenie Meyer, and/or
Stephen King?

You see your claim, that this John fellow heard a Jesus with his own ears in real
time walking with him, can't be verified true and reliable. The fact of the matter is;
you are taking the word of a stranger whom you've never met, and basing your
claim upon the assumption that the man's story isn't a complete fantasy.
_
Because of identification in myself with that what was written of Jesus and his identity with God in himself. Had Matthew Mark Luke of John not written a word about Jesus my identity is still with the God of heaven and here is how I know and you can believe me or not.

I was twenty seven years old and married for four years before I learned to read and my wife taught me to read. God came to me way before I know a word about any bible. The only thing I know of Jesus was was portrayed of him at Easter and Christmas. She taught me to read from the KJV and astonishingly when I read of Jesus experiences with God when He came to him and opend His heaven to him, I could identify with him for He did the same in me. And from further reviews and testimonies of others, He did the same in them

Now I am not taking the word of a stranger at all, I read what the stranger had to say and compared my life with what he said of Jesus. And it is by identification not hearsay.

Now for you it is only a fantasy as you exclaimed with no substance to support your claims at all. Truth is you cant relate to what you are ignorant of assuming yourself to be in a certain condition that you never have been in. That is the real truth here.

I do not know who Joseph Smith, Stephenie Meyer, and/or Stephen King is and really do not care. If they are important to you then so be it.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Judge not lest you be judged.
Yes if I judge you by the standards of Jesus Christ to be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect and without sin, walk as he walks in his same light with the same signs following -- and then you say that you dont, then I am judged with him in his ways.
How should have God judged Paul?
Every person is their own judge, Pauls judgment was he was a sinner not worthy of the kingdom of God. Jesus however judgment was all who has form the Father that what he had from Him are like Him and without sin.

You know very well if you follow Paul as a sinner or Jesus who was without sin as your own disposition. I dont have to judge you or Paul or Jesus, what comes out from man is the obvious.
Tell us. Let's see how God should judge you.
By the standards of Jesus Christ. If I follow him in his ways and my life lines up with His or not.

The religious minded comes to me with the demands that I believe this and believe that and do this and do that. That such as Pauls demands.

The spiritual minded comes to me with the demand that I line up my life with the standards of Jesus Christ. That such as Jesus Christ demands.
 
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