Believing on Christ is a evidence of being born again !

brightfame52

Well-known member
Many in religion these days have things backwards, they suppose that men can perform a spiritual from a spiritually dead heart. Yes men naturally born of adam are born spiritually dead. Thats why Jesus told nicodemus a man must be born again or he cannot see the kingdom of God, Christ and Him Crucified. The word see Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. is the greek word eidō and means:


to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

This certainly agrees with Pauls wisdom here 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know[understand] them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But once God Sovereignly gives a vessel of mercy a new birth by the Spirit, they are now capacitated Spiritually to believe Spiritually on Christ, hence Jesus says that those who did receive Him, even believe on His Name, did so because they had been born of God Jn 1:12-13

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born
, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



So the ones believing had been previously born of God, this testimony of truth cannot be more clearer !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You got that right; you have people born again without faith.
Faith comes with being born again. I have people Justified before God by the blood of Jesus Christ before Faith. However thats a differet topic. Do you understand that believing in Christ is a evidence of having been born again ?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You mean born again before believing?

Are you saying that one has to "believe" before one is "born again"?

Not only do I not know ANY passages which teach that (perhaps you can share some with me, if you know of any), but at least one passage CONTRADICTS your false teaching:

1 John 5 1 Everyone who believes [present] that Jesus is the Christ has been born [perfect = completed past action] of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

Why doesn't this instead say, "everyone who believes WILL be born of God", or "everyone who believes BECOMES born of God"?
 

PeanutGallery

Active member
...
1 John 5 1 Everyone who believes [present] that Jesus is the Christ has been born [perfect = completed past action] of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

Why doesn't this instead say, "everyone who believes WILL be born of God", or "everyone who believes BECOMES born of God"?
The context is identifying believers from unbelievers.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Many in religion these days have things backwards, they suppose that men can perform a spiritual from a spiritually dead heart. Yes men naturally born of adam are born spiritually dead. Thats why Jesus told nicodemus a man must be born again or he cannot see the kingdom of God, Christ and Him Crucified. The word see Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. is the greek word eidō and means:


to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

This certainly agrees with Pauls wisdom here 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know[understand] them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But once God Sovereignly gives a vessel of mercy a new birth by the Spirit, they are now capacitated Spiritually to believe Spiritually on Christ, hence Jesus says that those who did receive Him, even believe on His Name, did so because they had been born of God Jn 1:12-13

John 3:14–17 —ESV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.¶ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


So the ones believing had been previously born of God, this testimony of truth cannot be more clearer !


The bible is clear faith and repentance precede life

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…” “…get a new heart and a new spirit.” Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…” “…live!” Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repentance unto…” “…life” The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17).



John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Come to me…” (through faith) “…to have life.”



John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Unless you eat…drink” (by faith) “…you have not life in you.”



John 6:57

“so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“the one who feeds on me…” (by faith) “…will live”



John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“these are written…” (scriptures) “…that you may believe…” “…by believing you may have life…” Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 15:9

“He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“He purified their hearts…” “…by faith.” It does not say He purified their hearts by regeneration so as to make them have faith. Clearly a purified heart is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.





Galatians 3:26

“You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“You are all sons of God…” “…through faith in Christ…” Obviously, becoming a son (born of God) is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.



John 12:36

“Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Believe in the light…” “…so that you may become children…”



Ephesians 1:13

“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“when you heard the message of truth…when you believed “you were included in Christ…you were marked in him…”



Galatians 3:2, 5

“I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?… So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…received the Spirit…” “…by believing what you heard…”



2 Corinthians 3:14-16

“But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…anyone turns to the Lord…” (by faith) “…the veil is taken away.”



1 Timothy 1:16

“But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…those who would believe in him…” “…may receive eternal life.”



Colossians 2:12

“…having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…baptism, in which you were also raised…” “…through your faith…”



James 1:18

“He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…give us brith…” “…through the word of truth…”

Calvinists teach the word of truth will certainly be rejected by the unregenerate, thus how can the apostle say that the word may be the means of new birth? Birth must precede the word if Calvinism is true, and that is not what the text clearly indicates.

The Philippian jailer inquired, “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). If Paul was Calvinistic he should have replied, “You can do nothing to be saved. You were born corpse-like dead in your sin and a dead man can do nothing. If God makes you alive then you will be convinced to believe our gospel.” But Paul does not hesitate to simply say, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). Believe so as to have new life. Repent so as to live! That is the gospel appeal sent for all to hear it and respond.

John 3:3 does not show differently

When Nicodemus asks how can this be Jesus answer to him was

John 3:14–17 —ESV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.¶ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”

faith is the answer

and John 1:12 does not prove differently

John 1:12-13

“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The right to be born of God is given only to those who believe.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…all who did receive him…who believed…” “…he gave the right to BECOME children of God…” You are not even given to right to become a child of God, much less be born again as his child, UNTIL you “receive him” and “believe in his name.” And while placing our trust in Christ is man’s responsibility,
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The bible is clear faith and repentance precede life

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…” “…get a new heart and a new spirit.” Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…” “…live!” Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repentance unto…” “…life” The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17).



John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Come to me…” (through faith) “…to have life.”



John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Unless you eat…drink” (by faith) “…you have not life in you.”



John 6:57

“so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“the one who feeds on me…” (by faith) “…will live”



John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“these are written…” (scriptures) “…that you may believe…” “…by believing you may have life…” Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 15:9

“He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“He purified their hearts…” “…by faith.” It does not say He purified their hearts by regeneration so as to make them have faith. Clearly a purified heart is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.





Galatians 3:26

“You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“You are all sons of God…” “…through faith in Christ…” Obviously, becoming a son (born of God) is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.



John 12:36

“Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Believe in the light…” “…so that you may become children…”



Ephesians 1:13

“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“when you heard the message of truth…when you believed “you were included in Christ…you were marked in him…”



Galatians 3:2, 5

“I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?… So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…received the Spirit…” “…by believing what you heard…”



2 Corinthians 3:14-16

“But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…anyone turns to the Lord…” (by faith) “…the veil is taken away.”



1 Timothy 1:16

“But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…those who would believe in him…” “…may receive eternal life.”



Colossians 2:12

“…having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…baptism, in which you were also raised…” “…through your faith…”



James 1:18

“He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…give us brith…” “…through the word of truth…”

Calvinists teach the word of truth will certainly be rejected by the unregenerate, thus how can the apostle say that the word may be the means of new birth? Birth must precede the word if Calvinism is true, and that is not what the text clearly indicates.

The Philippian jailer inquired, “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). If Paul was Calvinistic he should have replied, “You can do nothing to be saved. You were born corpse-like dead in your sin and a dead man can do nothing. If God makes you alive then you will be convinced to believe our gospel.” But Paul does not hesitate to simply say, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). Believe so as to have new life. Repent so as to live! That is the gospel appeal sent for all to hear it and respond.

John 3:3 does not show differently

When Nicodemus asks how can this be Jesus answer to him was

John 3:14–17 —ESV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.¶ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”

faith is the answer

and John 1:12 does not prove differently

John 1:12-13

“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The right to be born of God is given only to those who believe.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…all who did receive him…who believed…” “…he gave the right to BECOME children of God…” You are not even given to right to become a child of God, much less be born again as his child, UNTIL you “receive him” and “believe in his name.” And while placing our trust in Christ is man’s responsibility,
What you singing is a old song !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
What you singing is a old song !
One you can't deal with

The bible is clear faith and repentance precede life

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…” “…get a new heart and a new spirit.” Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…” “…live!” Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repentance unto…” “…life” The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17).



John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Come to me…” (through faith) “…to have life.”



John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Unless you eat…drink” (by faith) “…you have not life in you.”



John 6:57

“so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“the one who feeds on me…” (by faith) “…will live”



John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“these are written…” (scriptures) “…that you may believe…” “…by believing you may have life…” Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 15:9

“He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“He purified their hearts…” “…by faith.” It does not say He purified their hearts by regeneration so as to make them have faith. Clearly a purified heart is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.





Galatians 3:26

“You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“You are all sons of God…” “…through faith in Christ…” Obviously, becoming a son (born of God) is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.



John 12:36

“Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Believe in the light…” “…so that you may become children…”



Ephesians 1:13

“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“when you heard the message of truth…when you believed “you were included in Christ…you were marked in him…”



Galatians 3:2, 5

“I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?… So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…received the Spirit…” “…by believing what you heard…”



2 Corinthians 3:14-16

“But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…anyone turns to the Lord…” (by faith) “…the veil is taken away.”



1 Timothy 1:16

“But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…those who would believe in him…” “…may receive eternal life.”



Colossians 2:12

“…having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…baptism, in which you were also raised…” “…through your faith…”



James 1:18

“He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…give us brith…” “…through the word of truth…”

Calvinists teach the word of truth will certainly be rejected by the unregenerate, thus how can the apostle say that the word may be the means of new birth? Birth must precede the word if Calvinism is true, and that is not what the text clearly indicates.

The Philippian jailer inquired, “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). If Paul was Calvinistic he should have replied, “You can do nothing to be saved. You were born corpse-like dead in your sin and a dead man can do nothing. If God makes you alive then you will be convinced to believe our gospel.” But Paul does not hesitate to simply say, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). Believe so as to have new life. Repent so as to live! That is the gospel appeal sent for all to hear it and respond.

John 3:3 does not show differently

When Nicodemus asks how can this be Jesus answer to him was

John 3:14–17 —ESV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.¶ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”

faith is the answer

and John 1:12 does not prove differently

John 1:12-13

“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The right to be born of God is given only to those who believe.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…all who did receive him…who believed…” “…he gave the right to BECOME children of God…” You are not even given to right to become a child of God, much less be born again as his child, UNTIL you “receive him” and “believe in his name.” And while placing our trust in Christ is man’s responsibility,
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Now the same Apostle wrote in His Epistle of 1 Jn 5 1

Whosoever believeth[is believing] that Jesus is the Christ is[was] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

The phrase "is born of God" is in the perfect past tense indicating a completed act in the past with present results. So the presently believing now is resultive of having been born of God in the past, hence agreeing that believing is evidence of having been born of God, and I believe God here means God the Holy Spirit !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Now the same Apostle wrote in His Epistle of 1 Jn 5 1

Whosoever believeth[is believing] that Jesus is the Christ is[was] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

The phrase "is born of God" is in the perfect past tense indicating a completed act in the past with present results. So the presently believing now is resultive of having been born of God in the past, hence agreeing that believing is evidence of having been born of God, and I believe God here means God the Holy Spirit !
Old news

The verse is not teaching how it is one comes to believe rather it is teaching the marks of one who was born again - He continues believing that that Jesus is the Christ

just as

1John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1John 4:7 ¶ Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
1John 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—sour faith.
1John 5:18 ¶ We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

You cannot use one verse to contradict many
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
1 Jn 5 1

Whosoever believeth[is believing] that Jesus is the Christ is[was] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Now Just as believing is evidential of having been born again, so likewise is loving the brethern evidence. So you cant love the brothern before you are born again, so its impossible to believe on Christ without being born again !
 

PeanutGallery

Active member
1 Jn 5 1

Whosoever believeth[is believing] that Jesus is the Christ is[was] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Now Just as believing is evidential of having been born again, so likewise is loving the brethern evidence. So you cant love the brothern before you are born again, so its impossible to believe on Christ without being born again !
Context, context, context; identifying believers from unbelievers.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Old news

The verse is not teaching how it is one comes to believe rather it is teaching the marks of one who was born again - He continues believing that that Jesus is the Christ

"He CONTINUES believing"?

So even though the passage says no such thing, you have to ASSUME that we believe BEFORE we are born again. So you don't care about what the text says, you only care about how you can twist it to support your false teachings.

Fortunately, choose suitable parallel passages in 1 John, but the problem is they don't support your view, they support ours.

just as

1John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

"has been born of God" - perfect tense = COMPLETED PAST action.
This says that since we have been born again, THEN "we cannot keep on sinning".
It is the regeneration which causes us to stop the practice of sinning.

Or perhaps you would rather say, "we cease the practice of sinning to BECOME "born of God", which means that you would be supporting a works-salvation.

1John 4:7 ¶ Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.

"has been born of God" - perfect tense = COMPLETED PAST action.
This says that we love [one another] BECAUSE we have been born of God.
It puts us in remembrance of "We love, because HE FIRST loved us."

Or perhaps you would rather say, "we love one another to BECOME "born of God", which means that you would be supporting a works-salvation.

1John 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—sour faith.

"has been born of God" - perfect = COMPLETED past action.
What this verse is saying is that we overcome the world BECAUSE we "have been born" of God.

Or perhaps you would rather say, "we overcome the world to BECOME born of God", which means that you would be supporting a works-salvation.
1John 5:18 ¶ We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

"has been born of God" - perfect tense = COMPLETED PAST action.
This says that since we have been born again, THEN "we cannot keep on sinning".
It is the regeneration which causes us to stop the practice of sinning.

Or perhaps you would rather say, "we cease the practice of sinning to BECOME "born of God", which means that you would be supporting a works-salvation.

You cannot use one verse to contradict many

So stop doing it, then....
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
theo

Or perhaps you would rather say, "we cease the practice of sinning to BECOME "born of God", which means that you would be supporting a works-salvation.

Lol, you nailed it because he does support a works salvation. He says people Christ died for perish in their sins !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
"He CONTINUES believing"?

So even though the passage says no such thing, you have to ASSUME that we believe BEFORE we are born again. So you don't care about what the text says, you only care about how you can twist it to support your false teachings.
Where is you evidence of that ?

The present tense is looking at things as they happen - linear aspect

Thus it refers to continued belief





Fortunately, choose suitable parallel passages in 1 John, but the problem is they don't support your view, they support ours.

So you say

Where is your proof ?

The fact is there are many verses showing faith and repentance precede life

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…” “…get a new heart and a new spirit.” Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…” “…live!” Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.

Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repentance unto…” “…life” The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17).

John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Come to me…” (through faith) “…to have life.”



John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Unless you eat…drink” (by faith) “…you have not life in you.”

John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“these are written…” (scriptures) “…that you may believe…” “…by believing you may have life…” Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 15:9

“He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“He purified their hearts…” “…by faith.” It does not say He purified their hearts by regeneration so as to make them have faith. Clearly a purified heart is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.


"has been born of God" - perfect tense = COMPLETED PAST action.
This says that since we have been born again, THEN "we cannot keep on sinning".
It is the regeneration which causes us to stop the practice of sinning.



And that is the mark of being born agasin

As I stated 1john is about how we can know we are born again

Not how we can come to faith
So stop doing it, then....

Actually the verses I posted ahow it is you who are trying to contradict the many with the one
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Where is you evidence of that ?

The present tense is looking at things as they happen - linear aspect

Thus it refers to continued belief

But there is nothing to indicate that that "continued belief" started PRIOR to being born again.
That is YOUR assumption.

And I would posit that if John had wanted to show that the continued belief began prior to regeneration, he would have used the imperfect (which is ALSO continuous aspect), rather than the present.


So you say

Where is your proof ?

The fact is there are many verses showing faith and repentance precede life

For the 50 millionth time, you keep CONFLATING "regeneration" and "eternal life".
Regeneration occurs PRIOR to belief (1 John 5:1).
Eternal life occurs AFTER belief (John 3:16).

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

Not referring to "regeneration".

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

Not referring to "regeneration".

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…” “…get a new heart and a new spirit.” Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…” “…live!” Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.

Not referring to "regeneration".


Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

Not referring to "regeneration".

John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

Not referring to "regeneration".

John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

Not referring to "regeneration".

John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

Not referring to "regeneration".


Not how we can come to faith

If you want Scripture on "how we came to faith", faith is given to us by GOD, as testified in Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, and Eph. 2:8.


Actually the verses I posted ahow it is you who are trying to contradict the many with the one

No, they contradict YOUR view, and YOU are the one who needs to accept correction.

And FYI, I don't think "ahow" is a word, just like "amnd" is not a word.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
1 Jn 5 1

Whosoever believeth[is believing] that Jesus is the Christ is[was] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Now Just as believing is evidential of having been born again, so likewise is loving the brethern evidence. So you cant love the brothern before you are born again,
Well here is something I can agree with up to point included

Her you go off the rails

so its impossible to believe on Christ without being born again !

Actually it is in believing that God causes one to be born again

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

James 1:18 —KJV
“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
 
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