Believing on Christ is a evidence of being born again !

praise_yeshua

Active member
1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

The greek would have this read:

. “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ IS (already) born of God.”

There are plenty of people that believe that Jesus is the Christ. The Son of the living God. Yet, they are not born again.

You do error, not knowing the Scriptures.....

It takes more than believing. There is an abandonment of will associated with confession that seals the deal.....

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There is no salvation without confession.

Which pretty much destroys the Calvinist's claim that regeneration precedes confession.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
There are plenty of people that believe that Jesus is the Christ. The Son of the living God. Yet, they are not born again.

You do error, not knowing the Scriptures.....

How ironic!

YOU do "err" (not "error"), "not knowing the Scriptures".

"err" is a verb.
"error" is a noun.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There is no salvation without confession.

Which pretty much destroys the Calvinist's claim that regeneration precedes confession.

Sorry, but it doesn't "destroy" anything.

We are regenerated.
Then we confess.
Then we are saved.

But you go on and continue to deny 1 John 5:1....
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
How ironic!

YOU do "err" (not "error"), "not knowing the Scriptures".

"err" is a verb.
"error" is a noun.

Haha. You're better than I am......

Sorry, but it doesn't "destroy" anything.

We are regenerated.
Then we confess.
Then we are saved.

But you go on and continue to deny 1 John 5:1....

I don't deny 1 John 5:1 at all. John just doesn't mention confession. Paul does. The entirety of the Gospel message is there for us to discern the complexity of God. It takes more than believing.

Which is ironic given the fact you list three above that are not in 1 JOHN 5:1..... Geesh. Give up yet?

By the way, how is one regenerated without being saved?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I don't deny 1 John 5:1 at all. John just doesn't mention confession. Paul does.

I'm not sure why you think 1 John 5:1 needs to specifically mention, "confession".
This is why you never make any sense.

The entirety of the Gospel message is there for us to discern the complexity of God. It takes more than believing.

Paul disagrees with you.
But then again, he knew God, you don't.

Which is ironic given the fact you list three above that are not in 1 JOHN 5:1..... Geesh. Give up yet?

Why should I give up simply because YOU don't understand Scripture?

Regeneration most certainly IS mentioned in 1 John 5:1, "has been born of God".

By the way, how is one regenerated without being saved?

You might as well ask something as equally nonsensical as, "how can one be born without dying?"
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
There are plenty of people that believe that Jesus is the Christ. The Son of the living God. Yet, they are not born again.

You do error, not knowing the Scriptures.....

It takes more than believing. There is an abandonment of will associated with confession that seals the deal.....

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There is no salvation without confession.

Which pretty much destroys the Calvinist's claim that regeneration precedes confession.
Its not as black and white as that friend, for example, Are they believing in the Jesus who came exclusively to save His People from their sins ? As the Angel announced Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Now, is that the Jesus you resting in ? The Jesus of particular redemption ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
theo


Correct !
Except John is not teaching how one is born again

rather he is noting characteristics of one born again

All that verse may show is one continues believing when born again

Your argument has a number of defects

One is born again through faith in the gospel

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Furthermore, with respect to 1 John 5:1, contextually the simple initial act of believing is not under consideration by John. John is talking about the ongoing life of faith as a believer. Obviously, the new birth precedes the ongoing life of faith. But that is something altogether different from saying the new birth precedes the initial act of faith. John’s use of “born” nowhere precludes the possibility of faith preceding regeneration.

even your grammatical argument is suspect as

Some Calvinists suggest the perfect tense indicates completed past action with continuing results and draw the conclusion that faith is the result of being born again. The argument is that the verb “born” is in the perfect tense denoting an action that precedes the faith in the participle “whoever believes.”

This is an unwarranted and erroneous interpretation. Consider two examples.



John 3:18 furnishes another clear example: 'but whoever does not believe [present substantival participle] has been condemned [perfect Indicative] already because he has not believed [perfect indicative] in the name of the one and only son of God' . Again the text tells us explicitly that the action of the present participle (disbelieving) is the cause of the action of the perfect indicative (condemning).

Consider 1 John 5:10, “he who does not believe God has made Him a liar . . ..” “He who does not believe” translates a present participle. “Has made” translates a perfect tense verb. Here again, the perfect tense verb, “making God a liar,” is a result of the present participle, “not believing,” not its cause.
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
Its not as black and white as that friend, for example, Are they believing in the Jesus who came exclusively to save His People from their sins ? As the Angel announced Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Now, is that the Jesus you resting in ? The Jesus of particular redemption ?

Not the particular redemption you pedal.

Matthew 1:21 was a mixed multitude of people.
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
I'm not sure why you think 1 John 5:1 needs to specifically mention, "confession".
This is why you never make any sense.

No. I specifically said that John didn't. I never said John should have. However, it is clear that confession is required because of Romans 10.

Paul disagrees with you.
But then again, he knew God, you don't.

Paul said it required confession. In fact, Jesus said that confession was required. You might want to read more.

Regeneration most certainly IS mentioned in 1 John 5:1, "has been born of God".

You said that a person wasn't saved until they confessed. Here is your list again.

We are regenerated.
Then we confess.
Then we are saved.

You might as well ask something as equally nonsensical as, "how can one be born without dying?"

I didn't ask that question. I know that answer. I would like to see your answer to my original question.

How is one regenerated and not be saved?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Some Calvinists suggest the perfect tense indicates completed past action with continuing results and draw the conclusion that faith is the result of being born again. The argument is that the verb “born” is in the perfect tense denoting an action that precedes the faith in the participle “whoever believes.”

This is an unwarranted and erroneous interpretation. Consider two examples.

I see you're plagiarizing from Leighton Flowers again...

John 3:18 furnishes another clear example: 'but whoever does not believe [present substantival participle] has been condemned [perfect Indicative] already because he has not believed [perfect indicative] in the name of the one and only son of God' . Again the text tells us explicitly that the action of the present participle (disbelieving) is the cause of the action of the perfect indicative (condemning).

Well, no, for two reasons.

First of all, it's not a valid parallel, since the the present is a participle, and it is negated, neither factor occurring in 1 John 5:1.

Further, the presence of the term "already" indicates that the "condemnation" occurred PRIOR to the "not believing", which (again) supports the Calvinist view.

Consider 1 John 5:10, “he who does not believe God has made Him a liar . . ..” “He who does not believe” translates a present participle. “Has made” translates a perfect tense verb. Here again, the perfect tense verb, “making God a liar,” is a result of the present participle, “not believing,” not its cause.

Again, this is the negation of a participle, which we don't see in 1 John 5:1.

Further, the "has made Him a liar" occurs prior to the not believing", since God made the statement PRIOR to the not believing. The statement was either true or false AT THE TIME God said it. It can't change it's "truth" status later on.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
No. I specifically said that John didn't. I never said John should have. However, it is clear that confession is required because of Romans 10.

Rom. 10 doesn't say that confession is needed for regeneration.

Paul said it required confession. In fact, Jesus said that confession was required. You might want to read more.

Why?
I agree with both Jesus and Paul.
One who confesses will be saved.

You said that a person wasn't saved until they confessed. Here is your list again.

Just like the BIBLE teaches.
Again, I don't see the problem that you're imagining.

How is one regenerated and not be saved?

Where did I say "one is regenerated and not saved".

Everyone who is regenerated WILL be saved.

If, however, you are ASSUMING that one must first be "saved" in order to later be "regenerated", the Bible doesn't teach any such thing.
 

AllOfGrace

Member
It takes more than believing. There is an abandonment of will associated with confession that seals the deal.....

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There is no salvation without confession.
Can I throw a monkey wrench in there? It's a loving Monkey wrench! ;) Acts 10...focus on the highlighted part...


34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree, 40God raised Him up on the third day and caused Him to be seen— 41not by all the people, but by the witnesses God had chosen beforehand, by us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. 45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days." Acts 10

So...

I don't want to diminish the fact that confession is important, but I do feel that it's possible to over emphasize the act of confession. In Acts 10...Peter was still in the middle of proclaiming the gospel when the Holy Spirit was just poured out on those who heard the message the very moment they believed. Actually...it doesn't even say that they believed, but it can be logically assumed. They began to confess Christ as the RESULT of being born again by the Spirit.

So...what you said still stands IMO. Those who are born again WILL confess Christ...But the confession appears to be the RESULT of being born again, not a prerequisite for salvation.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I see you're plagiarizing from Leighton Flowers again...

Actually as far as I know that is not Leighton Flowers

More likely Brian Absciano or David Allen

see below


Well, no, for two reasons.

First of all, it's not a valid parallel, since the the present is a participle, and it is negated, neither factor occurring in 1 John 5:1.

Further, the presence of the term "already" indicates that the "condemnation" occurred PRIOR to the "not believing", which (again) supports the Calvinist view.



Again, this is the negation of a participle, which we don't see in 1 John 5:1.

Further, the "has made Him a liar" occurs prior to the not believing", since God made the statement PRIOR to the not believing. The statement was either true or false AT THE TIME God said it. It can't change it's "truth" status later on.
First I note you failed to address the three passages I posted showing that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

second you did not address

Furthermore, with respect to 1 John 5:1, contextually the simple initial act of believing is not under consideration by John. John is talking about the ongoing life of faith as a believer. Obviously, the new birth precedes the ongoing life of faith. But that is something altogether different from saying the new birth precedes the initial act of faith. John’s use of “born” nowhere precludes the possibility of faith preceding regeneration.

third nothing you stated changes the fact the perfect tense does not necessitate the results expressed in the present tense

Many Calvinists argue that the use of “born” in the perfect tense produces a range of results expressed by present participles, and faith is one of them. However, exegesis always trumps systematic theology. Likewise, context and sentence structure trumps theology. Let’s compare John 3:18 with 1 John 5:1 to see if the use of “born” in the perfect tense produces the result of faith. Notice the order of events in John 3:18 is A then B. In 1 John 5:1 the order is B then A. Both make use of the perfect tense. The same grammatical structure that places being born of God before faith can also be used to describe justification as occurring after faith. See Rom 5:1. The grammar of the verses does not address an ordo salutis. The use of the perfect tense in Greek provides no support for the notion of regeneration preceding faith.30 To suggest otherwise is to fail to distinguish between tense and aspect in Greek verbs and verbals David Allen quoting Brian Absciano
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Actually as far as I know that is not Leighton Flowers

More likely Brian Absciano or David Allen

Okay, so you're admitting that you're plagiarizing from someone.
That means Flowers plagiarized it as well.

First I note you failed to address the three passages I posted showing that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth

Why do I need to?
You never offer commentary to the random verses you throw in everyone's face, so why do I need to? Double standards much?

And no, NONE of them "show that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth".

I'd explain to you why, but we both know you'll simply ignore it and go "nuh-huh", so I'd be wasting my time doing so.

And again, YOU haven't shown that they demonstrated "faith is required for the new birth", so why do I need to "show" that it doesn't say what YOU haven't shown in the first place?

second you did not address

Again, why do I need to?
I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
I'm mature enough and secure enough in my beliefs that I don't need to "prove" anything to you. I'm sorry you can't say the same.

On the contrary, YOU seem to be the one trying to convince us that YOU are right.
And so far, you've failed miserably.

Furthermore, with respect to 1 John 5:1, contextually the simple initial act of believing is not under consideration by John.

That's simply false.
You're making worthless excuses, since you are unwilling to accept what the verse ACTUALLY says.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Okay, so you're admitting that you're plagiarizing from someone.
That means Flowers plagiarized it as well.

No Leighton was quoting Abasciano

and I cut the note off too short

However

First I note you failed to address the three passages I posted showing that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Why do I need to?
You never offer commentary to the random verses you throw in everyone's face, so why do I need to? Double standards much?

And no, NONE of them "show that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth".
That is a fabrication I offer a lot of commentary on the verse you post

but on mine you offer nothing but bald denial

When you quote verses supposedly supporting the idea faith is a gift you never give exegesis and context is often contrary to your claim


I'd explain to you why, but we both know you'll simply ignore it and go "nuh-huh", so I'd be wasting my time doing so.
That's just a poor excuse for not being able to deal with the evidence

and a fabrication as well When I reject an interpretation you give I provide reasons

you provide excuses and bald denials

second you did not address

Furthermore, with respect to 1 John 5:1, contextually the simple initial act of believing is not under consideration by John. John is talking about the ongoing life of faith as a believer. Obviously, the new birth precedes the ongoing life of faith. But that is something altogether different from saying the new birth precedes the initial act of faith. John’s use of “born” nowhere precludes the possibility of faith preceding regeneration.


And again, YOU haven't shown that they demonstrated "faith is required for the new birth", so why do I need to "show" that it doesn't say what YOU haven't shown in the first place?

Again nothing but bald denial

The new birth is through the gospel

It can't be through unbelief in the gospel so it must be through faith in the gospel

BTW unbelief in the gospel does not profit Heb 4:2



Again, why do I need to?
I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
I'm mature enough and secure enough in my beliefs that I don't need to "prove" anything to you. I'm sorry you can't say the same.
Another excuse for not addressing anything

Its pretty clear you are not going to address any rebuttal

third nothing you stated changes the fact the perfect tense does not necessitate the results expressed in the present tense

Many Calvinists argue that the use of “born” in the perfect tense produces a range of results expressed by present participles, and faith is one of them. However, exegesis always trumps systematic theology. Likewise, context and sentence structure trumps theology. Let’s compare John 3:18 with 1 John 5:1 to see if the use of “born” in the perfect tense produces the result of faith. Notice the order of events in John 3:18 is A then B. In 1 John 5:1 the order is B then A. Both make use of the perfect tense. ...................... The grammar of the verses does not address an ordo salutis. The use of the perfect tense in Greek provides no support for the notion of regeneration preceding faith.30 To suggest otherwise is to fail to distinguish between tense and aspect in Greek verbs and verbals David Allen quoting ? Brian Absciano
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
No Leighton was quoting Abasciano

Well, try some original material.
And try offering some exegesis, instead of throwing around random verses without any commentary.

First I note you failed to address the three passages I posted showing that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth

But none of those passages actually SHOW "that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth". You offered no commentary, you offered no exegesis, you offered NOTHING.

So there was NOTHING for me to "address".

You quoted three Scriptures.
I believe ALL Scripture.
So what exactly am I supposed to "address"?

That is a fabrication I offer a lot of commentary on the verse you post

Your claim simply isn't true, and your posts are visible for all to see.

but on mine you offer nothing but bald denial

I have no NEED to!

When you quote verses supposedly supporting the idea faith is a gift you never give exegesis and context is often contrary to your claim

I don't really care about your opinion.
I'm not the one harassing you, and stalking you to goad you into responding to me.
I don't really care if you respond or not.
You're simply not important enough for me to care about.

That's just a poor excuse for not being able to deal with the evidence

It's a far better excuse than you have for not offering commentary, which is NO excuse whatsoever.

second you did not address

Hopefully you're starting to see a pattern.
You're not my Lord.
I don't follow your "orders".
I feel no obligation to "address" anything, simply because YOU want me to.

Furthermore, with respect to 1 John 5:1, contextually the simple initial act of believing is not under consideration by John. John is talking about the ongoing life of faith as a believer. Obviously, the new birth precedes the ongoing life of faith. But that is something altogether different from saying the new birth precedes the initial act of faith. John’s use of “born” nowhere precludes the possibility of faith preceding regeneration.

All you're doing there is simply repeating the same plagiarized worthless argument over and over again.

Its pretty clear you are not going to address any rebuttal

Is it?
Then why do you keep harassing me to respond to you, when you FINALLY figured out that not going to address any of the nonsense you've spewed here?

Einstein said (this is how you refrain from plagiarizing, btw) that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Many Calvinists argue that the use of “born” in the perfect tense produces a range of results expressed by present participles, and faith is one of them. However, exegesis always trumps systematic theology.

More plagiarism of worthless arguments.
Stop repeating other people's arguments ad nauseam.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Well, try some original material.
And try offering some exegesis, instead of throwing around random verses without any commentary.



But none of those passages actually SHOW "that faith in the gospel is required for the new birth". You offered no commentary, you offered no exegesis, you offered NOTHING.
As expected you address nothing

not even your double standard when you throw out verses supposedly addressing saving faith a gift without context or comment

Not this


1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

which show one is born again that is regenerated through the gospel

It is of course through faith as unbelief does not profit Heb 4:2

of which you simply offered bald denial without comment or exegesis

nor did you address anything else

and from past experience

as you fudged on Regeneration is new life

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…”
“…get a new heart and a new spirit.”
Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…”
“…live!”
Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.


Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repentance unto…”
“…life”
The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17).


John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Come to me…” (through faith)
“…to have life.”


John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Unless you eat…drink” (by faith)
“…you have not life in you.”


John 6:57

“so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“the one who feeds on me…” (by faith)
“…will live”


John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“these are written…” (scriptures)
“…that you may believe…”
“…by believing you may have life…”
Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.





John 1:12-13

“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The right to be born of God is given only to those who believe.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…all who did receive him…who believed…”
“…he gave the right to BECOME children of God…”
You are not even given to right to become a child of God, much less be born again as his child, UNTIL you “receive him” and “believe in his name.” And while placing our trust in Christ is man’s responsibility, the work of regeneration is all of God’s doing. It does not come by way of inheritance, marriage, works or striving (Rom. 9:30-32).


John 12:36

“Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Believe in the light…”
“…so that you may become children…”




Colossians 2:12

“…having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…baptism, in which you were also raised…”
“…through your faith…”


James 1:18

“He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…give us brith…”
“…through the word of truth…”

LWF


Edited - mine

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

“…being born again…”
“…by the word of God…”


1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

“…begotten you…”
“…through the gospel…”


The gospel must be believed if it is to prosper Heb 4:2

regeneration - the new birth is through faith in the gospel

Whether you baldly deny it or not
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

which show one is born again that is regenerated through the gospel

Prove it.

Over and over again you simply CLAIM they "show" that.
But you never actually DEMONSTRATE it.

Therefore, there is nothing for me to have to "address".

It is of course through faith as unbelief does not profit Heb 4:2

Prove it.

of which you simply offered bald denial without comment or exegesis

Jus like you simply offered worthless bald assertion, without evidence.

nor did you address anything else

Neither did you.
Double standards much?
 

newheart78

Active member
1 Jn 5 1

Whosoever believeth[is believing] that Jesus is the Christ is[was] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Now Just as believing is evidential of having been born again, so likewise is loving the brethern evidence. So you cant love the brothern before you are born again, so its impossible to believe on Christ without being born of God !

Exactly true my Brother !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Prove it.

Over and over again you simply CLAIM they "show" that.
But you never actually DEMONSTRATE it.

Therefore, there is nothing for me to have to "address".



Prove it.



Jus like you simply offered worthless bald assertion, without evidence.



Neither did you.
Double standards much?

Again as expected you address nothing and offer bald denials


1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

which show one is born again that is regenerated through the gospel

Theo fails to address that

It is of course through faith as unbelief does not profit Heb 4:2

Theo fails to address that as well

of which you simply offered bald denial without comment or exegesis

nor did you address anything else

and from past experience

as you fudged on Regeneration is new life

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…”
“…get a new heart and a new spirit.”
Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…”
“…live!”
Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.


Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repentance unto…”
“…life”
The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17).


John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Come to me…” (through faith)
“…to have life.”


John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Unless you eat…drink” (by faith)
“…you have not life in you.”


John 6:57

“so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“the one who feeds on me…” (by faith)
“…will live”


John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“these are written…” (scriptures)
“…that you may believe…”
“…by believing you may have life…”
Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.





John 1:12-13

“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The right to be born of God is given only to those who believe.

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…all who did receive him…who believed…”
“…he gave the right to BECOME children of God…”
You are not even given to right to become a child of God, much less be born again as his child, UNTIL you “receive him” and “believe in his name.” And while placing our trust in Christ is man’s responsibility, the work of regeneration is all of God’s doing. It does not come by way of inheritance, marriage, works or striving (Rom. 9:30-32).


John 12:36

“Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Believe in the light…”
“…so that you may become children…”




Colossians 2:12

“…having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…baptism, in which you were also raised…”
“…through your faith…”


James 1:18

“He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“…give us brith…”
“…through the word of truth…”

LWF


Edited - mine

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

“…being born again…”
“…by the word of God…”


1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

“…begotten you…”
“…through the gospel…”


The gospel must be believed if it is to prosper Heb 4:2

regeneration - the new birth is through faith in the gospel

Whether you baldly deny it or not

again Theo fails to address anything
 
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