Believing on Christ is a evidence of being born again !

Theo1689

Well-known member
Well here is something I can agree with up to point included

Her you go off the rails

so its impossible to believe on Christ without being born again !

Actually it is in believing that God causes one to be born again

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

James 1:18 —KJV
“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”

Neither of those verses teach that "believing causes one to be born again".

If they did, you'd be able to explain it.
Yet you never do.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Both

Her you go off the rails

so its impossible to believe on Christ without being born again !

Actually it is in believing that God causes one to be born again

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

James 1:18 —KJV
“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
Then you are inconsistent, which is evidence of false teaching. Both believing and Loving are evidences of having been born again ! Both are fruit of the Sprit Gal 5 22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 

TomFL

Well-known member
But there is nothing to indicate that that "continued belief" started PRIOR to being born again.
That is YOUR assumption.

No assumption

The bible shows we are born again through belief in the gospel

James 1:18 —KJV
“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

it's bible


And I would posit that if John had wanted to show that the continued belief began prior to regeneration, he would have used the imperfect (which is ALSO continuous aspect), rather than the present.
As I noted previous John's aim is to tell us how one can know one is born again

For the 50 millionth time, you keep CONFLATING "regeneration" and "eternal life".
Regeneration occurs PRIOR to belief (1 John 5:1).
Eternal life occurs AFTER belief (John 3:16).

And for the 100 million time

Regeneration is new life and a brings purified heart

Even Calvinist agree with this

Regeneration
What does it mean to be born again?
EXPLANATION AND SCRIPTURAL BASIS
We may define regeneration as follows: Regeneration is a secret act of God in which he imparts new spiritual life to us. This is sometimes called “being born again” (using language from John 3:3–8).
Grudem's systematic theology

as does


3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better.

Your refusal to accept truth does not change that

In fact it is kind of mind boggling that regeneration is referred to as the new birth

and you cannot see that as new life



Not referring to "regeneration".



Not referring to "regeneration".



Not referring to "regeneration".




Not referring to "regeneration".



Not referring to "regeneration".



Not referring to "regeneration".

Not referring to "regeneration".
Sorry but regeneration is new life and a purified heart

The fact is there are many verses showing faith and repentance precede life

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…” “…get a new heart and a new spirit.” Verse 32 makes it even more simple:

“Repent and…” “…live!” Life comes from repentance, not the other way around.

Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Repentance unto…” “…life” The Gentiles were not granted life unto repentance, but just the opposite according to the text. And the gospel is the means God grants mankind the ability to believe. He sent the gospel first to the Jews and then the Gentiles which enabled their faith response (Rom. 1:16, 10:14-17).

John 5:40

“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Come to me…” (through faith) “…to have life.”



John 6:53

“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“Unless you eat…drink” (by faith) “…you have not life in you.”

John 20:31

“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“these are written…” (scriptures) “…that you may believe…” “…by believing you may have life…” Life clearly is a fruit of faith and repentance, not the other way around.



Acts 15:9

“He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”

The order clearly laid out is as follows:

“He purified their hearts…” “…by faith.” It does not say He purified their hearts by regeneration so as to make them have faith. Clearly a purified heart is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.

and all those show faith precedes regeneration
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Neither of those verses teach that "believing causes one to be born again".

If they did, you'd be able to explain it.
Yet you never do.
This is really funny

Each of those verses show we are born again through the gospel

Do you suppose it is through unbelief ?

Heb. 4:2 —KJV
“For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

Absurd. it is through belief

The gospel profits when it is believed

James 1:18 —KJV
“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”

1 Cor. 4:15 —KJV
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”

Now you can stop your false claim I never explained it (though I have stated this previously)
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Then you are inconsistent, which is evidence of false teaching. Both believing and Loving are evidences of having been born again ! Both are fruit of the Sprit Gal 5 22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
And as previously noted

That says nothing about the initial act of Faith

without which no one can receive the spirit let alone the fruit of the spirit

John 7:38–39 —KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
And as previously noted

That says nothing about the initial act of Faith

without which no one can receive the spirit let alone the fruit of the spirit

John 7:38–39 —KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
Faith and Love is the fruit of the Spirit, that says enough. Nothing else needs to be said, and you going beyond that is assumption !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Faith and Love is the fruit of the Spirit, that says enough. Nothing else needs to be said, and you going beyond that is assumption !
You just repeated yourself without dealing with the fact one needs faith before they can receive the spirit


John 7:38–39 —KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You just repeated yourself without dealing with the fact one needs faith before they can receive the spirit


John 7:38–39 —KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
That verse has nothing to do with the point of the OP, its evasion and rabbit trail as you normally do.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
That verse has nothing to do with the point of the OP, its evasion and rabbit trail as you normally do.
You are in denial


John 7:38–39 —KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

One cannot be born again apart from the indwelling Spirit

and that verse speaks of regeneration
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You are in denial


John 7:38–39 —KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

One cannot be born again apart from the indwelling Spirit

and that verse speaks of regeneration
Anyone who believed on Christ was born of God Jn 1:12-13 The people who believed on Christ in Jn 7:39 had been born of God. That was discussed in my op, but as normal you dont pay attention
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Anyone who believed on Christ was born of God Jn 1:12-13 The people who believed on Christ in Jn 7:39 had been born of God. That was discussed in my op, but as normal you dont pay attention
Quote the verse

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

One must receive that is believe before one can be a child of God (literally a begotten one)

tekna ["born ones"] occurs in John 1:12; 11:52; 1 John 3:2, 10 [twice]; 5:2; 2 John 1,4,13;

It does not help your position
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Quote the verse

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

One must receive that is believe before one can be a child of God (literally a begotten one)

tekna ["born ones"] occurs in John 1:12; 11:52; 1 John 3:2, 10 [twice]; 5:2; 2 John 1,4,13;

It does not help your position
Yes the ones who received Christ or believed on His Name did so because they had been born of God !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes the ones who received Christ or believed on His Name did so because they had been born of God !
Not what the verse states

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

One must receive that is believe before one can be a child of God (literally a begotten one)

tekna ["born ones"] occurs in John 1:12; 11:52; 1 John 3:2, 10 [twice]; 5:2; 2 John 1,4,13;

It does not help your position
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not what the verse states

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

One must receive that is believe before one can be a child of God (literally a begotten one)

tekna ["born ones"] occurs in John 1:12; 11:52; 1 John 3:2, 10 [twice]; 5:2; 2 John 1,4,13;

It does not help your position
Thats exactly what it says. Their believing on Christ was because they were born of God !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Thats exactly what it says. Their believing on Christ was because they were born of God !
No it states as many as received him given the right to be born children of God

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No it states as many as received him given the right to be born children of God

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
I know what it says. They which received/believed on His Name were able to do so, because they had been born of God !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know what it says. They which received/believed on His Name were able to do so, because they had been born of God !
You mean you think you know

but you don't

It is those who received him were given the right to be born children of God even those now believing in his name were born not of blood nor of the flesh or the will of man but of God

In other words

Those who receive him are born of God
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Im sure ! Thats why I started this thread !
Your erroneous interpretation shows you don't for it causes scripture to contradict itself

John 3:7–17 —KJV
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

The question

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

the answer
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Your erroneous interpretation shows you don't for it causes scripture to contradict itself

John 3:7–17 —KJV
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

The question

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

the answer
The interpretation is fine.
 
Top