Bible discussions church members

[caris_mere]

This is more of an ecclesiastical question, but what are your thoughts on church members having theological questions with other members, without church leadership present or them even knowing about it?

I go to a pentecostal church, and this is apparently not acceptable.

Are there Bible verses to support the forbidding or acceptance of this practice?

 

[RiJoRi]

I attended Pentecostal churches (2!) for many years. They are where I matured, spiritually speaking.

This raises an orange flag for me. On the one hand, I can understand elders being leery of what was called "wild fire" – that is, strange doctrines coming up and ruining the church that they have been given the care of.

On the other hand, why aren't the elders trusting the Holy Spirit to take care of His church? Or at least teaching the people how to discern things?

On the third hand ?, pray very hard as to what Jesus would have you do. This type of control ("we will tell you everything you need to know") is also found in cults and heterodox (non-orthodox) churches.

Sorry I can't be more specific.

As to Bible verses, nothing immediately comes to mind.

God bless you,
--Rich

 

[caris_mere]

Thanks for the reply, Rich. I'll see where it leads. I meet with others just to talk just more intellectually. We ask questions and look for answers in the bible. Apparently, this is frowned upon. The church hasn't yet approached me, but I expect to hear something, as another person in the group was told (from the pastor) that he doesn't want these types of meetings going on.

 

[RiJoRi]

Yikes! Sounds like the pastor and elders have forgotten just Whose church it is. Keep praying and looking to Jesus for leading.

In one case, the anti-Scriptural teaching was so obvious and determined that my wife and I knew it was time to leave that church and look for another afterward.

--Rich

 

[Bob Carabbio]

This is more of an ecclesiastical question, but what are your thoughts on church members having theological questions with other members, without church leadership present or them even knowing about it?

I go to a pentecostal church, and this is apparently not acceptable.

Are there Bible verses to support the forbidding or acceptance of this practice?

The historic Pentecostals (Like the AG) were desperately opposed to "Home bible studies" which were breaking out everywhere among the Charismatic Christians. Of course the Charismatic Outpouring itself was opposed by the same folks (Since we weren't "Clothesline Holy" enough for them.

Denominational religious management systems always have an utter HORROR of anything that would lead to questions about their "Precious Defining Doctrines". Eventually the AG DID allow "Home meetings", but generally ONLY under the oversight of AG Trained and vetted leadership - to make sure things didn't go sideways.

I became part of the Charismatic Outpouring (not the "Movement that follower when the outpouring ended in the late '70s), and re-integrated with the AG when the "Outpouring" ended. There are, of course "Bible proof texts" that can be "adjusted"/"Spun" to support almost anything by those theologians skilled in the art.

 

[caris_mere]

I was approached in the end and told that we (2 families) couldn't gather together with the purpose of learning the bible better. If it happens that a biblical question comes up in our talks, that's fine, but we can't come together to study and understand the bible, especially if it happens with any regularity. As I am an older Christian and have a bit more knowledge of the bible than others in the group, I am also a de facto teacher, though the goal had always been to have everybody contribute and look for answers. There is no one person responsible for answering questions, but that we come to a consensus or not. Theology in community. I was told that the church had not given me to role of teacher, and who was I to think I could just start teaching (though I wasn't teaching, but in their eyes I was).

Doesn't the Great Commission tell us that we are supposed to teach others? Can the church really forbid Christians from freely coming together with the purpose of understanding the Bible?

 

[RiJoRi]

I was approached in the end and told that we (2 families) couldn't gather together with the purpose of learning the bible better.

Oops! Orange flag has just gone red!

If it happens that a biblical question comes up in our talks, that's fine, but we can't come together to study and understand the bible, especially if it happens with any regularity.

If that church is so concerned about what is being taught, it seems to me that they could have an elder sit in. Although that might stifle the interchange...

They could also have classes on "How to Study Your Bible". And on basic Christianity. A church I was attending had a teen Sunday School class on the cults, which included a lot of good theology: "This is what they believe, this is what the Bible says..." .

I was told that the church had not given me to role of teacher, and who was I to think I could just start teaching (though I wasn't teaching, but in their eyes I was).

Who gave teachers to the church? (An interesting study – use a concordance or e-search for "teacher" in the New Testament. There are heterodoxic/cultic groups on here which keep insisting that only their group has the authority to "properly interpret" the Bible.)

Doesn't the Great Commission tell us that we are supposed to teach others?

Yes.

Can the church really forbid Christians from freely coming together with the purpose of understanding the Bible?

Yeah, a certain large church in Italy tried forbidding their laity from reading the Bible. Big-time fail.

Keep praying and seeking Jesus' direction for what He would have you do. My wife and I were in a quandary about whether to leave a church or stay. (Many friends, etc.) We prayed, and several weeks later we got our answer. A jaw-dropping, neon-colored answer.

--Rich

 

[balshan]

This is more of an ecclesiastical question, but what are your thoughts on church members having theological questions with other members, without church leadership present or them even knowing about it?

I go to a pentecostal church, and this is apparently not acceptable.

Are there Bible verses to support the forbidding or acceptance of this practice?

I would not accept that. The best discussions are when believers are gathered often over a dinner table discussing the things of God.

 

[balshan]

Thanks for the reply, Rich. I'll see where it leads. I meet with others just to talk just more intellectually. We ask questions and look for answers in the bible. Apparently, this is frowned upon. The church hasn't yet approached me, but I expect to hear something, as another person in the group was told (from the pastor) that he doesn't want these types of meetings going on.

It sounds like they want to control people and that is wrong. I did a Jewish study course it was great. The first lesson was that we don't need a rabbi to teach us. (They knew I wasn't Jewish but welcomed me). They use Deut 30 to start with:

11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

It is interesting we always looked at the verse or verses discussed them and then read the rabbis on it.

 

[balshan]

I was approached in the end and told that we (2 families) couldn't gather together with the purpose of learning the bible better. If it happens that a biblical question comes up in our talks, that's fine, but we can't come together to study and understand the bible, especially if it happens with any regularity. As I am an older Christian and have a bit more knowledge of the bible than others in the group, I am also a de facto teacher, though the goal had always been to have everybody contribute and look for answers. There is no one person responsible for answering questions, but that we come to a consensus or not. Theology in community. I was told that the church had not given me to role of teacher, and who was I to think I could just start teaching (though I wasn't teaching, but in their eyes I was).

Doesn't the Great Commission tell us that we are supposed to teach others? Can the church really forbid Christians from freely coming together with the purpose of understanding the Bible?

We should always want to discuss God, the things God is doing etc. I went to a mixed bible study group not part of the church I was attending. It was great there were Anglican, Catholics, Pentecostals etc. We were able to discuss with interest the scriptures. We accepted some had different views.

Why would a church want to stop people gathering and discussing God?

 

[caris_mere]

It seems they keep tight control on what is taught. They don't want anything taught, unless they have approved it or the teacher. Discussions that just happen are okay there, but if you come regularly with the intent to learn more from the bible, that is considered an unauthorized bible group.

 

[RiJoRi]

It seems they keep tight control on what is taught. They don't want anything taught, unless they have approved it or the teacher.

Again, Pentecostalism has spawned some strange doctrines, which have divided congregations, and caused much confusion.

Discussions that just happen are okay there, but if you come regularly with the intent to learn more from the bible, that is considered an unauthorized bible group.

FWIW, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (a.k.a. "Jehovah's Witnesses") began as a Bible study, which over time went astray.

As you are the one there, you will have to pray for wisdom, as James says, and guidance. "Test all things," Paul told the Thessalonians in 1The 5:21. Personally, when I was praying for guidance regarding leaving the church in which I had spiritually grown up in, I asked God to let me know if we should stay using flashing lights, sirens, and a big arrow. (I can be obtuse at times! ?) And He did! Not literally, but it was plain enough for me (and my wife) to see. It was a jaw-dropping, did-I-hear-that-right? moment. Sadly, nobody else caught it... ?

So, keep praying for yourself and for your leaders. God will use this!

--Rich

 

[Our Lord's God]

This is more of an ecclesiastical question, but what are your thoughts on church members having theological questions with other members, without church leadership present or them even knowing about it?

I go to a pentecostal church, and this is apparently not acceptable.

Are there Bible verses to support the forbidding or acceptance of this practice?

The medieval Vatican and Church of Rome is well known for controlling its people in a similar manner.

 

[caris_mere]

Well it was enough for them to demand repentance and threaten to kick us out of the church.

 

[RiJoRi]

Well it was enough for them to demand repentance and threaten to kick us out of the church.

? Does NOT sound good. At all. Repentance for studying God's Word? Sheesh! BIG red flag!

Do your "co-studiers" know what is happening? If not, I would update them and stop attending. And then look for another church.

My wife and I wound up going to a conservative Baptist church to recuperate. Not as exuberant, only lasts one hour, but the teaching is solid. (This is not a blanket OK for all Baptist churches. There are over 200 types!) Anyway, you should go where the Lord leads you.

God bless you and yours,
--Rich

 

[caris_mere]

In the end, about 1/4 of the church left, because of the how the ordeal was handled. That included the only deacon and 1 of 5 elders. It's a sad story. Our friends all left the church.

 

[RiJoRi]

In the end, about 1/4 of the church left, because of the how the ordeal was handled. That included the only deacon and 1 of 5 elders. It's a sad story. Our friends all left the church.

Sad that it happened, even more sad for those who stay.
But good for you and the others who saw the wrongness of what was happening.

May you all find a good church home.
--Rich

 

[tbeachhead]

This is more of an ecclesiastical question, but what are your thoughts on church members having theological questions with other members, without church leadership present or them even knowing about it?

I go to a pentecostal church, and this is apparently not acceptable.

Are there Bible verses to support the forbidding or acceptance of this practice?

Heavy handed control is not exclusively a Pentecostal practice. Control is the issue, and a misunderstanding of fellowship and authority. Acts has the earliest, most primitive church breaking bread from house to house and discussing the teachings of the apostles.

The errors of the Ephesian church, according to Paul's prophetic word to them in Acts 20 broke out among rogue elders, not among a fellowship of brethren dedicated to Paul's teachings. Paul's pretty clear as to how we behave toward one another...and it doesn't include forbidding questions, discussions or thoughts.

 

[Hawkeye]

Thanks for the reply, Rich. I'll see where it leads. I meet with others just to talk just more intellectually. We ask questions and look for answers in the bible. Apparently, this is frowned upon. The church hasn't yet approached me, but I expect to hear something, as another person in the group was told (from the pastor) that he doesn't want these types of meetings going on.

I would leave that church in the dust......yesterday.