Bidens arrest

[LifeIn]

Mitt Romney is a man without a country. He represents no one except whoever it is that is filling his campaign coffers. When he is in an election cycle we know what the press who is carrying him around on their shoulders will say about him. He tortures dogs by putting them on top of his car, what else? Just like when he was running against Obama. Mitt Romney and Lynn Cheney don't have a friend in the world, because Republican voters won't support them in season or out, and the establishment press will lower the boom on them in season.

I cited Mitt Romney as a counter example showing a Republican who is not supportive of everything Trump has done. Your response is to change the definition of "Republican" to exclude the counter example. This is a textbook instance of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Students of debate, take note. Also Mitt Romney is far from the only counter example. There is a much-needed split in the leadership of the Republican Party. You can pretend they are all united, but they are not. We have seen many of Trump's former supporters jump ship in these final days. Mike Pence was loyal to Mr. Trump throughout everything, always giving Trump credit. But when Trump failed to contact Pence during the hours while the capitol was under attack and Senators were sheltering in place, but instead Trump filled the time with angry tweets against his Vice President, Pence was furious. You will notice Pence did not attend Trump's going away send-off at Andrews Airforce Base, but instead chose to attend Biden's inauguration. You can't look at all that and still say the Republican leadership is united. As for the die-hard voters, you vastly over-estimate their numbers. They couldn't even get the fellow elected with help of the sympathetic moderates and independents. Now that Trump has shown his true colors, the number of voters that feel as you do are not enough to sway the leadership. I didn't know much about Pence before, but he has gone up considerably in my estimation, and I think he may very well form the core of the Republican Party going forward.

I appreciate the conciliatory sentiment, but anyone who kicks Donald Trump in the pants on the way out the door, will have the support of virtually no Republican voters.

Let's see. Allowing him a cushy helicopter ride to Andrews Airforce Base with all the honors, and a cushy Air Force One ride to Mar-A-Lago, all provided by the government - if that is kicking him in the pants, I wish someone would kick me in the pants like that!

Stealing elections is a serious matter.

I would be if it actually happened.

When you say "good conservatives" do you mean neocons?

No, I mean the ones like Susan Collins, John Kasich, and now it looks like even the Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence, are looking more like moderates. We will have to wait and see how the Senate trial goes to see where they really stand.

That is great to hear now. Where were you when Donald Trump were getting liberal policies actually accomplished?

I have supported Trump's operation Warp Speed and his advocacy for covid relief payments. But I can't think of a single other liberal policy that he accomplished. I can think of many anti-liberal policies of his, though.

Biden has this skill, I see no indication he intends to use it.

That's something that can only be known in hindsight. Check back in four years.

But here is the real question about tolerance, and I appreciate the tone of your post, if conservatives like Hillary supporters in 2016 start talking about "resistance," will you be as tolerant of their free speech as conservatives have been of the left for four years?

Hillary Clinton conceded the election the day after election day. She did not resist Trump taking power.

That is really the only bottom line respecting whether or not tolerance is just a word or something real.

 

[Temujin]

Mike Pence was loyal to Mr. Trump throughout everything, always giving Trump credit. But when Trump failed to contact Pence during the hours while the capitol was under attack and Senators were sheltering in place, but instead Trump filled the time with angry tweets against his Vice President, Pence was furious. You will notice Pence did not attend Trump's going away send-off at Andrews Airforce Base, but instead chose to attend Biden's inauguration. You can't look at all that and still say the Republican leadership is united.

To be fair, not many people did turn up for the grand send- off. Even his family weren't all there. If every one who was invited brought the full five guests they could add to their ticket, that would make only one attending invitee. Must be the smallest Trump rally ever, and hopefully a sign of things to come.

 

[Thistle]

I cited Mitt Romney as a counter example showing a Republican who is not supportive of everything Trump has done.

Give me an example of something Trump did that REPUBLICANS as REPUBLICANS should have been against.

Your response is to change the definition of "Republican" to exclude the counter example.

Mitt Romney stabbed Republican voters in the back as the Republican nominee. What would good enough evidence to form an opinion about him look like? You are going to have to clear a very high bar to convince Republicans that Mitt Romney needs more chances to stab Republicans in the back. He begged Trump to campaign for him, which he did then stabbed Trump, and Republican voters in the back, over, and over, and over, and over again. Find me one Republican who would not say that Mitt Romney is not a RINO, besides Lynn Cheney.

This is a textbook instance of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

No, this is an almost universal assessment of Mitt Romney among Republicans.

Students of debate, take note. Also Mitt Romney is far from the only counter example. There is a much-needed split in the leadership of the Republican Party. You can pretend they are all united, but they are not.

No, I'm quite concerned that the elitists will refuse to take a lesson from the Trump agenda. That would be a grave mistake. Trump managed to unite Republicans, with what we used to call Reagan Democrats, plus the anti-war element, all the way to disaffected Bernie Bro's. If they go back to shoveling favors to corporate donors they will lose everything they gained.

We have seen many of Trump's former supporters jump ship in these final days. Mike Pence was loyal to Mr. Trump throughout everything, always giving Trump credit. But when Trump failed to contact Pence during the hours while the capitol was under attack and Senators were sheltering in place, but instead Trump filled the time with angry tweets against his Vice President, Pence was furious. You will notice Pence did not attend Trump's going away send-off at Andrews Airforce Base, but instead chose to attend Biden's inauguration.

If Trump was not going to be there, Pence had to be, come on.

You can't look at all that and still say the Republican leadership is united.

No, I'm quite concerned about Mitch McConnell, Keven McCarthy, and a number of other people. They will either side with the people who delivered a coalition that delivered more diversity and numbers than any republican in 100 years, or they will blow the party up. So if you believe I'm saying there is a unity between Republican voters and leadership you've misread my comments.

As for the die-hard voters, you vastly over-estimate their numbers.

I know what 75 million means.

They couldn't even get the fellow elected with help of the sympathetic moderates and independents.

Biden didn't get more votes than Trump.

Now that Trump has shown his true colors, the number of voters that feel as you do are not enough to sway the leadership. I didn't know much about Pence before, but he has gone up considerably in my estimation, and I think he may very well form the core of the Republican Party going forward.

Mike Pence is one of the most decent people on planet earth. He would be a good president. However, if his agenda looks like the one that failed against Donald Trump in 2016 he won't be.

Let's see. Allowing him a cushy helicopter ride to Andrews Airforce Base with all the honors, and a cushy Air Force One ride to Mar-A-Lago, all provided by the government - if that is kicking him in the pants, I wish someone would kick me in the pants like that!

That is how the President travels. He had the nuclear codes with him because he was the president. There was another set of nuclear codes that became effective at 12:01 PM. Those were at the inauguration.

I would be if it actually happened.

It did.

No, I mean the ones like Susan Collins, John Kasich, and now it looks like even the Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence, are looking more like moderates. We will have to wait and see how the Senate trial goes to see where they really stand.

If any vote against Trump they are done.

I have supported Trump's operation Warp Speed and his advocacy for covid relief payments. But I can't think of a single other liberal policy that he accomplished. I can think of many anti-liberal policies of his, though.

I totally accept the idea that you are a true liberal and not a leftist. How did you feel about Obama blowing up Americans in drone strikes in Yemen, killing women and children. Trump didn't do that. He delivered peace in the Middle East. You are for that right. He made us energy independent so we could pull our troops out of the Middle East. Do you want us back in there fighting more wars? Should we knock over another country like Libya and see what happens? If you are the liberal person I believe you are, and I do believe you are a liberal person, I think you don't want that. Unfortunately, you've been routing for the one guy who will give you all that stuff you don't want. He will pick up with the drone strikes right were Obama left off. Joe Biden never saw a war he didn't like. I've got skin in the game, my son's in the US army.

That's something that can only be known in hindsight. Check back in four years.

I hope your optimism proves out.

Hillary Clinton conceded the election the day after election day. She did not resist Trump taking power.

What are you talking about? She spent nine million dollars on a phony dossier that led to a special counsel that hounded Trump to the gates of hell. That is the single most dispicable thing that has ever happened in US politics before the second impeachment. For now that holds the record. If the Senate doesn't dismiss the trial forthwith, we will have a new record yet again.

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

The fraud was there for all to see....

Stolingrad​

Today, Maricopa County. AZ finally agreed to allow an "audit'

 

[Thistle]

Stolingrad​

Today, Maricopa County. AZ finally agreed to allow an "audit'

Wow, isn't that ironic.

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

What are you talking about? She spent nine million dollars on a phony dossier that led to a special counsel that hounded Trump to the gates of hell. That is the single most dispicable thing that has ever happened in US politics before the second impeachment. For now that holds the record. If the Senate doesn't dismiss the trial forthwith, we will have a new record yet again.

In the First Declassified Russia Collusion Document Released – Christopher Steele Admitted in September 2017 that He Leaked His Dossier in 2016 to Help Hillary Clinton​

She paid for it.

 

[Thistle]

She paid for it.

Because he thought it would be good for UK.! So lets make sure we have this straight. A foreign spy Christopher Steele to benefit his country at the expense of the United States compiled a bunch of tall tails about Donald Trump, for which there was no evidence to believe, and Hillary Clinton financed this misinformation attack on the United States, to the tune of nine million dollars.

In what way is Hillary Clinton better than Benedict Arnold? She is financing foreign spy's to attack the US election system.

 

[vibise]

I cited Mitt Romney as a counter example showing a Republican who is not supportive of everything Trump has done. Your response is to change the definition of "Republican" to exclude the counter example. This is a textbook instance of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Students of debate, take note. Also Mitt Romney is far from the only counter example. There is a much-needed split in the leadership of the Republican Party. You can pretend they are all united, but they are not. We have seen many of Trump's former supporters jump ship in these final days. Mike Pence was loyal to Mr. Trump throughout everything, always giving Trump credit. But when Trump failed to contact Pence during the hours while the capitol was under attack and Senators were sheltering in place, but instead Trump filled the time with angry tweets against his Vice President, Pence was furious. You will notice Pence did not attend Trump's going away send-off at Andrews Airforce Base, but instead chose to attend Biden's inauguration. You can't look at all that and still say the Republican leadership is united. As for the die-hard voters, you vastly over-estimate their numbers. They couldn't even get the fellow elected with help of the sympathetic moderates and independents. Now that Trump has shown his true colors, the number of voters that feel as you do are not enough to sway the leadership. I didn't know much about Pence before, but he has gone up considerably in my estimation, and I think he may very well form the core of the Republican Party going forward.



Let's see. Allowing him a cushy helicopter ride to Andrews Airforce Base with all the honors, and a cushy Air Force One ride to Mar-A-Lago, all provided by the government - if that is kicking him in the pants, I wish someone would kick me in the pants like that!



I would be if it actually happened.



No, I mean the ones like Susan Collins, John Kasich, and now it looks like even the Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence, are looking more like moderates. We will have to wait and see how the Senate trial goes to see where they really stand.




I have supported Trump's operation Warp Speed and his advocacy for covid relief payments. But I can't think of a single other liberal policy that he accomplished. I can think of many anti-liberal policies of his, though.




That's something that can only be known in hindsight. Check back in four years.



Hillary Clinton conceded the election the day after election day. She did not resist Trump taking power.

Pence was a failed governor who was not likely to win re-election in Indiana when he was tapped by Trump to be VP, largely because of Pence was liked by Evangelicals.

Pence was a major target of the rioters on Jan 6, and Trump would not take his calls during that attack, so it is not surprising Pence decided to go to the inauguration rather than Trump's send-off. It is amazing how many right wingers suddenly see the light when they or their family are targets or experience disaster.

A few days of responsible behavior does not cancel out his sycophantic VP act that went on for 4 years. Pence has no future in politics. Maybe he will go back to what he did before politics - radio talk show host.

 

[Whateverman]

A few days of responsible behavior does not cancel out his sycophantic VP act that went on for 4 years.

For sure, but we also can't ignore the fact that he was a Republican who has turned away from Drumpfism (at the last possible moment). I've been wrestling with the contrast between how Pence has behaved over the last 4-5 years, and how presidential he's actually been during the last month. In at least some small way, he deserves credit for being more presidential and patriotic than #45.

Pence has no future in politics.

Lots of people said the same thing about our last president...

 

[Thistle]

Pence was a failed governor who was not likely to win re-election in Indiana when he was tapped by Trump to be VP, largely because of Pence was liked by Evangelicals.

Oh my. You believe that?

Pence was a major target of the rioters on Jan 6, and Trump would not take his calls during that attack,

Did Pence tell you that directly? He didn't mention that to me.

so it is not surprising Pence decided to go to the inauguration rather than Trump's send-off. It is amazing how many right wingers suddenly see the light when they or their family are targets or experience disaster.

You mean like left wingers who thought that having the National Guard protecting the White house was Fascistic? Amazing how perspectives change isn't it? Twenty five thousand troops? That must make Biden Genghis Khan. If the same rules apply that is.

A few days of responsible behavior does not cancel out his sycophantic VP act that went on for 4 years.

No virtue goes unpunished.

Pence has no future in politics.

He didn't have any past in politics as far as your political good will was concerned.

Maybe he will go back to what he did before politics - radio talk show host.

We're still going to have those under Biden?

 

[LifeIn]

Give me an example of something Trump did that REPUBLICANS as REPUBLICANS should have been against.

I have no special insight into the mind of Republicans, so don't ask me. Just ask those Republicans that spoke against Trump on Jan. 6th.

Mitt Romney stabbed Republican voters in the back as the Republican nominee.

Your personal opinion is noted.

What would good enough evidence to form an opinion about him look like?

Well, if Romney had said he was joining the Democratic party, that would be evidence that he was not really a Republican. But I have not heard Romney say any such thing.

You are going to have to clear a very high bar to convince Republicans that Mitt Romney needs more chances to stab Republicans in the back.

I won't be doing any convincing. I'm not a Republican.

Find me one Republican who would not say that Mitt Romney is not a RINO, besides Lynn Cheney.

I cannot prove anything about what Republicans would say. But I can tell you some things about what Republicans have said. What I can say is that of the approximately 250 Republican legislators, no more than three of them have said Romney is a RINO.

No, this is an almost universal assessment of Mitt Romney among Republicans.

More wishful thinking.

If Trump was not going to be there, Pence had to be, come on.

Now you are inventing non-existent rules. There is no rule that one of the two of them had to attend the inauguration.

No, I'm quite concerned about Mitch McConnell, Keven McCarthy, and a number of other people. They will either side with the people who delivered a coalition that delivered more diversity and numbers than any republican in 100 years, or they will blow the party up.

You should offer your services as a Republican strategist. But I think they already have more competent advisors then some random guy on the internet.

So if you believe I'm saying there is a unity between Republican voters and leadership you've misread my comments.

See my comment above about offering your services as Republican strategist.

I know what 75 million means.

I was referring to die-hard supporters, not to every single person who preferred Trump over Biden.

Biden didn't get more votes than Trump.

Yes, just repeating it, and maybe if you click your heals together three times while you say it, it will become true.

Mike Pence is one of the most decent people on planet earth. He would be a good president. However, if his agenda looks like the one that failed against Donald Trump in 2016 he won't be.

See above regarding your services as a Republican strategist.

That is how the President travels. He had the nuclear codes with him because he was the president. There was another set of nuclear codes that became effective at 12:01 PM. Those were at the inauguration.

Still, there is no "kicking him in the back" as you claimed.

It did.

See comment above about clicking three times.

I totally accept the idea that you are a true liberal and not a leftist.

Since I don't know exactly what you mean by either of these terms (other than you approve of one and disapprove of the other) I can't comment on the distinction, if there is one.

How did you feel about Obama blowing up Americans in drone strikes in Yemen, killing women and children.

I was very much against the extent to which Obama's used drones, and the fact that Trump did not start another war was one of the few positives I saw in his Presidency. But since you mention Yemen.....In the long-running civil war in Yemen, the US under Trump has participated directly, but has consistently helped the Saudis as they attack civilian targets inside Yemen, creating a humanitarian disaster of historic proportions. The Saudi-led coalition has committed war crimes and the US benefits by selling the Saudis the arms necessary to commit them. It could very well be that Trump's policy toward the Saudis to side with them and supply them with the best arms has caused more damage to the people than Obama's drone strikes.

He made us energy independent so we could pull our troops out of the Middle East.

I reject the notion that it is right to take other people's oil by force of arms.

Unfortunately, you've been routing for the one guy who will give you all that stuff you don't want.

That's speculation. After it happens you can say "I told you so."

 

[Fred]

It still does not excuse the killing of Rayshard Brooks

Porter said Brooks had already overpowered two officers and violently brought them to the ground and Rolfe acted in accordance with Georgia law and Atlanta Police Department policy given the facts of the situation.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/police-shooting-atlanta/2022/08/23/id/1084303/

 

[mikeT]

Porter said Brooks had already overpowered two officers and violently brought them to the ground and Rolfe acted in accordance with Georgia law and Atlanta Police Department policy given the facts of the situation.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/police-shooting-atlanta/2022/08/23/id/1084303/

Resurrecting a thread that's been dead for more than a year and a half?

It's a good look for you.

 

[Fred]

Resurrecting a thread that's been dead for more than a year and a half?

I didn't feel like starting a new thread.

It's a good look for you.

Thanks


The police officers did a great job.