Bill Gates warns of more pandemics !!!

vibise

Well-known member
But as we have seen, in today's culture science is only only relevant where people want it to be.
Can you give an example or two of what you mean?

Science is true whether you believe it or not - to quote Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
 

vibise

Well-known member
I'm aware that's what you think.

It is one thing to acknowledge that the profit motive appears in a capitalist economy. But when you use the word "driven" it is suggestive of coercion. That is completely false. The comparison here is between capitalism and Socialism. The motivations in Socialism or are all coercive, while the motivations in capitalism are all voluntary. Therefore, "thou shalt not steal" does a far better job of crystallizing the actual differences between Socialism and capitalism than does profit motive. Socialism coercively steals the means of production from the people who accumulated the capital. Capitalism does not do that. So the fundamental difference is theft. Socialism institutionalizes theft and capitalism does not.

Perhaps you could rephrase this comment, and I might be tracking closely enough with your point to respond. In particular I'm not sure what "it" refers to exactly.
Your side is constantly comparing my side to socialism. But your definition of socialism includes stealing the means of production. That is certainly not what any US Dem has proposed. There are few countries operating under socialism in the world.
 

vibise

Well-known member
So the scientific establishment, has to give approval for new data to be collected. Any individual scientist who collects data on their own, is frowned upon by the establishment.
Not at all! Where are you getting this from?

Data collection is generally time-consuming and expensive as it requires specialized equipment and supplies, but there are certainly amateur astronomy buffs, for example, who have made interesting findings.
 

vibise

Well-known member
I respect scientist who do not cater their results to accommodate the desires of the ruling class.
What ruling class controls science, and how do they do it?

This would require a ruling class cadre to control scientific research done in labs run by academia, industry and government all over the world to ensure that all results mesh. How is this remotely possible?

Just because you don't believe science does not mean it is all a global conspiracy.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Your side is constantly comparing my side to socialism. But your definition of socialism includes stealing the means of production. That is certainly not what any US Dem has proposed. There are few countries operating under socialism in the world.
Marxism. Yass!

Like alGore "the science is settled" Central Planning approved "scientific thought"
 

vibise

Well-known member
Phony Tony is your pope. Look how you behave when someone dares to mock your climate dogma. You are funny
Fauci is a highly respected and accomplished scientist, and an effective leader. The RW has turned him into some sort of monster through lies and misinformation. Another example of the anti-science bent of the RW.

I am not a climate scientist, but when 100% of relevant scientific organizations and the vast bulk of published papers support a specific conclusion, then there would have to be a massive amount of data to show this is all wrong. And those data do not exist.
It is the behavior of the anti-science climate change deniers that is concerning, not the behavior of those of us who accept the consistent conclusions reached by application of the scientific method.
 

vibise

Well-known member
"They say"? Who is "they"?
There are multiple sites that evaluate charities for how much they use for marketing and administration vs actual charitable spending. There are many good charities.

I give to many such good ones. Do you?
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Trump has not been prosecuted or formally accused in a criminal indictment, because the investigations are ongoing.
Trump has been under investigation by the anti-American scum since before he took the oath of office which you know perfectly well. Why don't you try dealing in the truth!
Some investigations are going on now in multiple places over multiple issues, so we will see what evidence turns up.
You don't have a particular complaint against Donald Trump you fall asleep wishing upon a star that he's guilty of something. Do you have any idea how that reflects on you? It's not good…
There are, however, plenty of false accusations that have been made.
By people who have zero regard for the truth. They placed their politics where their morality belongs therefore they have no fidelity to the truth.
Remember those "lock her up" chants,
Do you remember James Comey talking about the results of the investigation and specifically saying that she was guilty of every element of the crime as measured by the exact language of the statute? I do, I can tell you exactly where I was as I was listening to him go from that to saying but we're not going to prosecute her because nobody would. Justice is no respecter of persons. And just because the elitists are all on one side of the political divide does not mean that they can commandeer "justice" to advance one side against the other. She is guilty and she should suffer the same consequences that any private in the army would suffer under the same circumstances.
and the 30 years of investigations into the Clintons that never turned up anything of consequence?
Kenstar returned the equivalent of 14 indictments against the Clintons. What fantasy land do you live in? I can't believe you just said that! Talk about demonstrating seething contempt for the intelligence of the people reading this thread; I mean…
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Your side is constantly comparing my side to socialism. But your definition of socialism includes stealing the means of production. That is certainly not what any US Dem has proposed. There are few countries operating under socialism in the world.
If I'm not mistaken AOC has something like 2 million followers on Twitter. She and her Socialist Spice Girls call them selves "democratic socialist." Since she apparently runs the Democratic Party these days, you'd be very hard-pressed to give any other explanation for Joe Biden's agenda, perhaps you should direct this complaint toward her.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Fauci is a highly respected and accomplished scientist
Dr. Fauci has been a laughingstock since the 1980s when he told everyone they would be wise not to hang out close to gays because you might be able to contract aids through casual contact. He's a blithering idiot and he's never been anything other than a blithering idiot. And if by some miracle you didn't know this before you are without excuse after the events of 2020 and 2021 and so far this year.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Fauci is a highly respected and accomplished scientist, and an effective leader. The RW has turned him into some sort of monster through lies and misinformation. Another example of the anti-science bent of the RW.

I am not a climate scientist, but when 100% of relevant scientific organizations and the vast bulk of published papers support a specific conclusion, then there would have to be a massive amount of data to show this is all wrong. And those data do not exist.
It is the behavior of the anti-science climate change deniers that is concerning, not the behavior of those of us who accept the consistent conclusions reached by application of the scientific method.
And he's your pope
 

wiseones2cents

Well-known member
I'm aware that's what you think.

And you have yet to prove that i'm mistaken.
It is one thing to acknowledge that the profit motive appears in a capitalist economy. But when you use the word "driven" it is suggestive of coercion. That is completely false. The comparison here is between capitalism and Socialism. The motivations in Socialism or are all coercive, while the motivations in capitalism are all voluntary. Therefore, "thou shalt not steal" does a far better job of crystallizing the actual differences between Socialism and capitalism than does profit motive.
It IS driven by greed and profit.. I actually seen the words profit driven used to describe capitalism before.



Driven equates to coercion? LOL Driven can mean control but not coercion. People need to open their dictionary books.



Socialism is the furthest thing from coercion. Again, take out the dictionary.



Motivations in capitalism are voluntary? Like the taxes to pay the debt it accumulates?lol Or you have the option(voluntarily) to buy a SUPER over priced home or live on the street?lol


Socialism coercively steals the means of production from the people who accumulated the capital. Capitalism does not do that. So the fundamental difference is theft. Socialism institutionalizes theft and capitalism does not.


Socialism takes back the means of production that was stolen from the people by the super rich via wars and taxes. You have it backwards.lol

Did you even read my OP? It does not promote or speak of thievery in any way shape or form!

Capitalism institutionalizes theft via debt, interest , taxes and inflation !!


Perhaps you could rephrase this comment, and I might be tracking closely enough with your point to respond. In particular I'm not sure what "it" refers to exactly.
PROFIT is a tax/interest by the rich, for their Investment.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
And he's your pope

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glenlogie

Well-known member
What ruling class controls science, and how do they do it?

This would require a ruling class cadre to control scientific research done in labs run by academia, industry and government all over the world to ensure that all results mesh. How is this remotely possible?

Just because you don't believe science does not mean it is all a global conspiracy.
Are you really playing this dumb?

Are you trying to convince us, that the government class from various countries do not talk to each other?

Are you trying to convince us that government does not dangle research money and give them to scientist for pet projects,

And it appears that you have not heard of the various means of communication available to the world today, as well as meetings and conferences.

In the world of Vibise, there is no communication going on between goverments of the world and between groups of scientists.
 
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Thistle

Well-known member
And you have yet to prove that i'm mistaken.
I hope you don't find me impertinent if I call for a neutral umpire.
It IS driven by greed and profit.. I actually seen the words profit driven used to describe capitalism before.
I understand the language which is applied to capitalism in these discussions. I'm getting down below the language to the actual meaning as capitalism is really done in the real world. The distinction between capitalism and Socialism is the element of coercion. Capitalism is based on voluntary exchanges and Socialism is based on coercive theft.
Driven equates to coercion?
If you selectively pick out multiple definitions of a word and ignore the context you can make this argument that you're making. Unfortunately that's not how language is interpreted. You select the definition that makes sense in context. You're doing exactly the opposite.
LOL Driven can mean control but not coercion. People need to open their dictionary books.
Again while you obsess on arguments that focus on language I'll talk about reality.
Socialism is the furthest thing from coercion.
It's 100% coercion. I own the means of production and I'm not giving it to you I have prevented Socialism from happening. The government is not going to stand idly by and allow that to prevail they're taking the property and that's coercion. The other form of socialism is national Socialism that Adolf Hitler used in Germany and in that case he left the assets alone and forced the managers to do his bidding by directives that were handed down from on high. Those directives are also coercion! Therefore it's not a matter of which brand of socialism, Socialism is coercion.
Again, take out the dictionary.
I'm already married. But if you're available why don't you take out a dictionary.
Motivations in capitalism are voluntary?
Yes
Like the taxes to pay the debt it accumulates?lol
Greed is not an accrual item.
Or you have the option(voluntarily) to buy a SUPER over priced home or live on the street?lol
You can live on the street that doesn't have a super over priced home.
Socialism takes back the means of production that was stolen from the people by the super rich via wars and taxes. You have it backwards.lol
You have it backwards. "The people" do not now, and never did own it. And in any odd case with that does not turn out to be strictly correct, "the people" chose to sell it into private hands, because they deem that to be in their best interest.
Did you even read my OP? It does not promote or speak of thievery in any way shape or form!
I believe it mentions Socialism. That's the same thing.
Capitalism institutionalizes theft via debt, interest , taxes and inflation !!
Cash is a form of capital therefore taxes is a form of Socialism.
PROFIT is a tax/interest by the rich, for their Investment.
Are you laboring under the assumption that a poor shopkeeper isn't trying to turn a profit? Your view of economics is cartoonish.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Peer review for published studies is not the end of the evaluation process. Findings in those papers are subject to evaluation by the broader scientific community (peer reviewers can sometimes miss problems), and published results can be tested for reproducibility. Some studies do not withstand this additional level of scrutiny and sink into oblivion.

Climate change is established science at this point. That climate is changing due largely to human activity is not in dispute by scientists.

We recognize that there are many people who are highly skeptical of science and scientists and are even anti-science. Surprisingly, those people have no problem relying on scientific advances in their daily lives. A great example of cognitive dissonance.
Providing of course they are scientific and indeed advances. Gender identity constructs would a good example of where science is ignored.
 
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