Birth of Christ: Dec 25th? March 31st? Or other?

[keiw]

Nice try at deflection but you still did NOT answer my question: did you see anything pagan in our church bulletin, that I put down on here, from our Christmas Eve services? Were the hymns pagan? Bible readings? The candles by which we sang "Silent Night"? Are candles "pagan"?

What?

The non existent god is satan posing. He poses as all the false gods. So no matter how good he makes it look( 2Cor 11:12-15) God warned all to get out of her unless they want to be responsible for all of her sins which have amassed to the heavens.
Jesus warned all as well. ( John 15:21-22)He said some would do things against the true followers on account of his name( thinking they were standing for it) Why? Because they didnt know the one who sent him=Father=YHWH(Jehovah) the one Jesus calls-THE ONLY TRUE GOD at John 17:3--It takes believing Jesus over errors.
The Greek lexicons prove 100% a god small g is correct in the last line at John 1:1. It did not call him God. Small g god means-has godlike qualities.
In 1822 A Kneeland a Greek scholar translated the NT, He compared Greek to English side by side to prove to the world a god was correct. 19 other translations did it correct, 3 had was divine-All rejected by trinity clergys because truth exposes them as false religions-40,000 of them = a house divided will not stand. They fail this true mark 100%= 1 Cor 1:10- Unity of thought( all of Gods 1truth) no division.

 

[Josheb]

The Greek lexicons prove 100% a god small g is correct in the last line at John 1:1. It did not call him God.

That is completely incorrect.

First, our oldest Greek manuscripts are "uncial," or written entirely in capital letters. More importantly, though, even where our manuscripts of the Bible contain miniscule (lower case) lettering the theon and theos both use the same lettering of theta. Some manuscripts both use an upper case theta and some use a lower-case theta, but those using the lower case do so in both places. See HERE. Lexicons do not contradict the manuscripts. They interpret the Greek, and in most cases, they will list "God, or god," or possibly "God or a god," and they do not get into doctrinal points of view.

More importantly, John's preamble is taken from a narrative about Alexander the Great written by the Hellenist-influenced Jewish Philosopher, Philo. In Hellenism knowledge, or logos, was a gift from the gods by which humans could attain divine attribute. Philo described Alexander as the logos of God, and the great mediator between the God and humanity, but Philo was not God, nor was he a god. John exploited this teaching and claimed Jesus, the logos of God, was with God in the beginning (Alexander was not there in the beginning) and Jesus was God (Alexander was not)> The apostle John was, in a single sentence, repudiating both Greek Hellenism and Hellenist Judaism (which had come into prominence during the inter-Testamental period). John was in fact saying Jesus is big-G God, and Greek lexicons of John 1:1 do not prove 100% differently.

pic of John 1 from Vaticanus Codex

 

[keiw]

That is completely incorrect.

First, our oldest Greek manuscripts are "uncial," or written entirely in capital letters. More importantly, though, even where our manuscripts of the Bible contain miniscule (lower case) lettering the theon and theos both use the same lettering of theta. Some manuscripts both use an upper case theta and some use a lower-case theta, but those using the lower case do so in both places. See HERE. Lexicons do not contradict the manuscripts. They interpret the Greek, and in most cases, they will list "God, or god," or possibly "God or a god," and they do not get into doctrinal points of view.

More importantly, John's preamble is taken from a narrative about Alexander the Great written by the Hellenist-influenced Jewish Philosopher, Philo. In Hellenism knowledge, or logos, was a gift from the gods by which humans could attain divine attribute. Philo described Alexander as the logos of God, and the great mediator between the God and humanity, but Philo was not God, nor was he a god. John exploited this teaching and claimed Jesus, the logos of God, was with God in the beginning (Alexander was not there in the beginning) and Jesus was God (Alexander was not)> The apostle John was, in a single sentence, repudiating both Greek Hellenism and Hellenist Judaism (which had come into prominence during the inter-Testamental period). John was in fact saying Jesus is big-G God, and Greek lexicons of John 1:1 do not prove 100% differently.

pic of John 1 from Vaticanus Codex
View attachment 3667

I am not wrong--The Greek lexicons are not wrong--trinity translations are wrong. Thats right Catholicism screwed it all up--its who you believe. My previous post is 100% reality.

 

[Josheb]

I am not wrong--The Greek lexicons are not wrong--trinity translations are wrong.

The evidence proves otherwise and if the only response to be had is boils down, "Nunh unh," then I'm content to let that be your case.

Thats right Catholicism screwed it all up--its who you believe.

The Greek Manuscripts aren't Catholic. Don't let the word "Vaticanus" throw you off; I could just as easily have used Sinaiticus or Alexandrinus Codices. They all show the theon and theos lettered identically, and NOT big-G then little-g as was claimed. John and Philo were definitely not Catholic.

My previous post is 100% reality.

The evidence proves otherwise.

I am not wrong--The Greek lexicons are not wrong--trinity translations are wrong. Thats right Catholicism screwed it all up--its who you believe. My previous post is 100% reality.

Yes, you are.

No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.

Yeah, okay. I'll let that be your argument, but the evidence proves otherwise.

 

[keiw]

The evidence proves otherwise and if the only response to be had is boils down, "Nunh unh," then I'm content to let that be your case.

The Greek Manuscripts aren't Catholic. Don't let the word "Vaticanus" throw you off; I could just as easily have used Sinaiticus or Alexandrinus Codices. They all show the theon and theos lettered identically, and NOT big-G then little-g as was claimed. John and Philo were definitely not Catholic.

The evidence proves otherwise.

Yes, you are.

No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.
Yes, you are.
No, I am not.

Yeah, okay. I'll let that be your argument, but the evidence proves otherwise.

Only Catholicism translating remained when the protestants translated. All originals were gone. It was kept in Latin until the 1300,s.

 

[SteveB]

When was Christ born?

In another thread this got brought up and the date March 31st was tossed out. Today, I heard it was in the fall. Many people still think December 25th.

thoughts? And evidence?

A couple of posters touched on the keys to understanding when.

According to Exodus 12, God gives us the calendar we're to use relating to Hebrew issues/people.
The first month, Nisan starts in the spring.

Next, according to Luke 1's statement regarding the timing of the service in the temple for Zechariah, we need to go back to 1 Chronicles 24, where we're given a time schedule for the service of the priesthood.

According to the lots taken, there are 24 periods of service. 1 Chronicles 24:18-19
Thus, there are 24 service periods in the Jewish calendar.
Furthermore, according to history, the Hebrew calendar is 360 days. Not the 365.25 days we experience today.

Note in 1 Chronicles 24:10, Abijah was selected to be in the 8th period of the cycle.

So, now, starting at the first month of Nisan, every two weeks a new group enters their service cycle.
as Abijah is the eighth, his lot falls in the last two weeks of the fourth month of the Hebrew calendar.

Jewish Calendar - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

Learn about the Jewish calendar, its background and history, the numbering of Jewish years, the months of the Jewish year and the days of the Jewish week.

www.jewfaq.org

which means that Zechariah served in the month of Tammuz.

pursuant to the Angel's word from God, Zechariah heads (Luke 1:23) home at the beginning of the month of Av (According to the corollary, July/August, in our calendar).

Also, according to Luke 1, Mary receives word from Gabriel that she is to be the mother of the Messiah, when Elizabeth is 6 months pregnant (Luke 1:26, 36).

note however that it says- in the 6th month. We're not told a specific day. Just the phrase "sixth month."

dealing with the awareness of the Jewish calendar, that places the conception of Jesus in the 11th month of the Hebrew calendar.

So, it's either Tevet or Shevat.
I.e., the end of our calendar year or the beginning of our calendar year.

November through February.

---

I know.... that's a pretty long period of ambiguity.

Here's a scientific look at their calendar.

Hebrew Calendar

Description of the Hebrew calendar based on the lunar and solar cycles and a list of the Hebrew months.

www.science.co.il

Ever notice that the celebration of the passover bounces back and forth between March and April? Passover is on the 14th day of the first month, Nisan.

It's only a few weeks, but this is the result of their calendar structure, or what the calendar is based on. Please read both articles.

Another important issue is whether or not a leap year month is included.

Jewish Calendar - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

Learn about the Jewish calendar, its background and history, the numbering of Jewish years, the months of the Jewish year and the days of the Jewish week.

www.jewfaq.org

---

Ok...
So, we're now going nine months from the 11th month. Or, 15 months after the conception of John.

This means that Jesus is born in either Cheshvan or Kislev.

So, in classic Berean style, Acts 17:11,
PLEASE do your own investigation into this.

Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.

 

[Josheb]

Only Catholicism translating remained when the protestants translated. All originals were gone. It was kept in Latin until the 1300,s.

The Greek manuscripts plainly state what the Greek manuscripts state and it was you who brought up the Greek lexicons. The Greek upon which the lexicons are based demonstrably show the theoton/theos conjugated identically. Your claim has been proven incorrect and now the attempt to change the argument to Catholic bias is lame red herring.

 

[keiw]

The Greek manuscripts plainly state what the Greek manuscripts state and it was you who brought up the Greek lexicons. The Greek upon which the lexicons are based demonstrably show the theoton/theos conjugated identically. Your claim has been proven incorrect and now the attempt to change the argument to Catholic bias is lame red herring.

I spoke fact. At least 20 translations in history had a god small g, 3 had was divine in the last line at John 1:1--In 1822 a Greek scholar-A.Kneeland translated from the Greek lexicons, the NT- He compared Greek to English side by side to prove to the world a god was 100% correct. All those translations rejected by trinity clergys because the fact of truth exposes them as false religions.

 

[Fred]

John 1:1

Nice to see that even the JW's teach the Lord Jesus is to be worshiped.

John 1:1 (New World Translation)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=John+1:1

Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last!: Worship may be defined as "the act of showing respect and love for a god." (Teaching Box 1A, What Is Worship?, page 10)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102017920

Examining the Scriptures Daily—2022: As we meditate on the Bible accounts of Jesus’ life, we come to love and respect Jesus because of the kind way he dealt with people. (Sunday, September 4, page 89)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102022208

 

[keiw]

Nice to see that even the JW's teach the Lord Jesus is to be worshiped.

John 1:1 (New World Translation)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=John+1:1

Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last!: Worship may be defined as "the act of showing respect and love for a god." (Teaching Box 1A, What Is Worship?, page 10)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102017920

Examining the Scriptures Daily—2022: As we meditate on the Bible accounts of Jesus’ life, we come to love and respect Jesus because of the kind way he dealt with people. (Sunday, September 4, page 89)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102022208

You learned from the right teachers, how to twist things into lies. I told you--NO WE DO NOT WORSHIP JESUS. YOU are a deceiver, satans pet.

 

[Fred]

You learned from the right teachers, how to twist things into lies. I told you--NO WE DO NOT WORSHIP JESUS. YOU are a deceiver, satans pet.

Your own writings refute your heresy.
No matter how much they try the light of worshiping Jesus still shines through from even those most opposed to doing so.

 

[keiw]

Your own writings refute your heresy.
No matter how much they try the light of worshiping Jesus still shines through from even those most opposed to doing so.

Only by you twisting. the word worship did not appear in what you stated, only in your twisting of it.

 

[Fred]

Only by you twisting. the word worship did not appear in what you stated, only in your twisting of it.

I quoted from their own garbage sources, heretic.