Blood vs water

kpasa

Member
Bread and water may be the usual fare for many in prison or in the brig, but water is not one of the emblems blessed by the Lord as a remembrance of His life, death, and resurrection, no matter what mere mortal has decided otherwise.


Matthew 26:27-29


English Standard Version​


27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.”

Mark 14:23-25​


English Standard Version​


23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Luke 22:19-20​


English Standard Version​


19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

John 6:53-54​


English Standard Version​


53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

1 Corinthians 10:15-16


English Standard Version​


15 I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 11:23-26​


English Standard Version​


23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.


Ephesians 1:3-14

Spiritual Blessings in Christ


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


Hebrews 9:11-15

Redemption Through the Blood of Christ​


11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. 15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.


Hebrews 10:19-31

The Full Assurance of Faith​


19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The fruit of the vine was/is not water, as was/is the practice in Mormonism, so those who shun the emblem of Christ's blood are not keeping the commandments of God, no matter how much some would attempt to protest that fact. It is how the Lord presented the “communion, eucharist, Lord's supper,” (or however one wishes to refer to the partaking of those emblems), so that tradition must be preserved as the Lord implemented that 'sacrament.'
 

Erundur

Member
The fruit of the vine was/is not water, as was/is the practice in Mormonism, so those who shun the emblem of Christ's blood are not keeping the commandments of God, no matter how much some would attempt to protest that fact.
Except that according to the verses you posted, the emblem of Christ's blood is the cup, not the fruit of the vine; therefore members of the Church of Jesus Christ do not shun the emblem of Christ's blood, no matter how much some would attempt to protest that fact.
 

kpasa

Member
Perhaps this thread should have been titled "fruit of the vine" vs water. Mormons claim that they are keeping the commandments of God, but their communion table is celebrated according to their own invented traditions with regards to the drink emblem. This is not the way that the Lord wanted that emblem to be commemorated, is it?
 

kpasa

Member
Except that according to the verses you posted, the emblem of Christ's blood is the cup, not the fruit of the vine; therefore members of the Church of Jesus Christ do not shun the emblem of Christ's blood, no matter how much some would attempt to protest that fact.
??? The cup contained the emblem of His blood. One doesn't drink a physical cup, but rather what is in the cup. The clear (to most here) issue is that His blood was to be shed on the cross, and the "fruit of the vine" was clearly what He stated was the emblem of His blood. So. actually Mormons do ignore the clear teachings of Christ Jesus and His Apostles on the subject, no matter how much you claim that you don't.
 

Erundur

Member
Perhaps this thread should have been titled "fruit of the vine" vs water. Mormons claim that they are keeping the commandments of God, but their communion table is celebrated according to their own invented traditions with regards to the drink emblem. This is not the way that the Lord wanted that emblem to be commemorated, is it?
Since the Lord told us we could do it this way (D&C 27), then yes, it is.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
This topic is just as rideculous as which day is really the 7th day. Perhaps us should be obtuse about the particular brand of wine. Maybe it's not the "right" if it isn't specifically "new" wine.

It's not what's in the cup that matters. It's what it represents.
 

Magdalena

Active member
Except that according to the verses you posted, the emblem of Christ's blood is the cup, not the fruit of the vine; therefore members of the Church of Jesus Christ do not shun the emblem of Christ's blood, no matter how much some would attempt to protest that fact.

No, the cup was just the vessel that held the emblem of his blood, which was the wine. He told them to drink the wine “which is poured out”, which signified the blood he poured out for their forgiveness. The significance of the wine (his blood) was the important part. Not the vessel.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Except that according to the verses you posted, the emblem of Christ's blood is the cup, not the fruit of the vine;

And I suppose that it is simply a COINCIDENCE that the content of the cup is wine (which would be red, like blood), and not water (which would be colourless)?

So according to you, Jesus would be JUST FINE with taking the cup filled with Coffee, or sweet tea, or 7-Up, or Dr Pepper, or any liquid?

therefore members of the Church of Jesus Christ do not shun the emblem of Christ's blood, no matter how much some would attempt to protest that fact.

Okay, folks, it's QUIZ TIME!

We're going to play, "What does the Bible say?"


Question 1: What did Jesus say in John 6:53?:
a) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, ...
b) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his water, ...
c) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his coffee, ...
d) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his olive oil, ...

Question 2: What did Jesus say in John 6:54?:
a) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life,
b) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my water has eternal life,
c) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my coffee has eternal life,
d) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my olive oil has eternal life,

Question 3: What did Jesus say in John 6:55?:
a) For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
b) For my flesh is true food, and my water is true drink.
c) For my flesh is true food, and my coffee is true drink.
d) For my flesh is true food, and my olive oil is true drink.

Question 4: What did Jesus say in John 6:56?:
a) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me
b) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my water abides in me
c) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my coffee abides in me
d) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my olive oil abides in me

Question 5: What did Paul write in 1 Cor. 11:25?:
a) This cup is the new covenant in my blood.
b) This cup is the new covenant in my water.
c) This cup is the new covenant in my coffee.
d) This cup is the new covenant in my olive oil.
 

Erundur

Member
And I suppose that it is simply a COINCIDENCE that the content of the cup is wine (which would be red, like blood), and not water (which would be colourless)?
I'm sure you do.

So according to you, Jesus would be JUST FINE with taking the cup filled with Coffee, or sweet tea, or 7-Up, or Dr Pepper, or any liquid?
I try to avoid telling Jesus what he should be JUST FINE with.

Okay, folks, it's QUIZ TIME!

We're going to play, "What does the Bible say?"


Question 1: What did Jesus say in John 6:53?:
a) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, ...
b) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his water, ...
c) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his coffee, ...
d) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his olive oil, ...
You forgot "e) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his wine, ...".
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I'm sure you do.


I try to avoid telling Jesus what he should be JUST FINE with.

Well, you seem quite confident with telling Jesus He should be "JUST FINE" with allowing water to be used instead of wine.

So why is okay for you to make THAT substitution, but other substations are not fine?
Double standards much?

You forgot "e) ...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his wine, ...".

Okay... Let's try it this way...

1) What was ACTUALLY in the cup from which they drank?

2) What colour was that beverage?
 

Erundur

Member
Well, you seem quite confident with telling Jesus He should be "JUST FINE" with allowing water to be used instead of wine.
This phenomenon is known as projection. I haven't told Jesus what he should be JUST FINE with. What I see is you guys telling Jesus what he should NOT be JUST FINE with.

So why is okay for you to make THAT substitution, but other substations are not fine?
What substitutions have I said are not fine?

Okay... Let's try it this way...

1) What was ACTUALLY in the cup from which they drank?

2) What colour was that beverage?
Let's try it this way...

1) What does the Bible say MUST ACTUALLY be in the cup?
2) What color does the Bible say that beverage MUST be?
 
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