Born Again

brightfame52

Well-known member
These verses prove they had faith and were not born again of the Spirit. Being born again of the Spirit was a new and living way. Learn how to understand what you are reading.
Impossible. If they had faith it proves that they were born again of the Spirit. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 22
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Impossible.

Yes I know it doesn't suit your doctrine.

That's because your doctrine is WRONG.

All you just did here is deny Scripture for the sake of your mistaken interpretation of a verse.

If they had faith it proves that they were born again of the Spirit. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 22

Yes faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

All these OT saints believed apart from the new birth and apart from having the Holy Spirit.

Now see if you can figure out how to put those two together instead of being willfully obtuse.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
False statement not in scripture
No its true

Gal 5:22 concerns those saved under the new covenant

You can try finding it spoken of in the old testament and you won't find it

try finding where unbelievers possess it you will not find it either

Gal. 5:18–25 —ESV
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes I know it doesn't suit your doctrine.

That's because your doctrine is WRONG.



Yes faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

All these OT saints believed apart from having the Holy Spirit.

Now see if you can figure out how to put those two together instead of being willfully obtuse.
It's the scriptures. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22. Ot saints and my saints had same Spirit of faith.2 Cor 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
It's the scriptures. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22. Ot saints and my saints had same Spirit of faith.2 Cor 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

According to your misguided "reasoning" no human being on the planet would be able to have patience or gentless apart from the Spirit.
 

civic

Well-known member
According to your misguided "reasoning" no human being on the planet would be able to have patience or gentless apart from the Spirit.
correct since that is BIBLICAL. The fruit of the Spirit only exists in those who are born again.

whatever the world appears to have its not the REAL thing which only comes from God via His indwelling Spirit in us.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law

next..........................................................
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
correct since that is BIBLICAL. The fruit of the Spirit only exists in those who are born again.

How about patience? Any atheists out there ever exhibit patience? Or is this the part where you add to the text?

whatever the world appears to have its not the REAL thing which only comes from God via His indwelling Spirit in us.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law

next..........................................................
 

TomFL

Well-known member
It's the scriptures. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22. Ot saints and my saints had same Spirit of faith.2 Cor 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
2cor 4:13 concerns Paul in his affliction and how he could stand up under it

2 Cor. 4:8–13 —ESV
“We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.
For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
So death is at work in us, but life in you.
¶ Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak,”

“4:13-14. What enabled Paul to endure in the face of this suffering? His quotation of Psalm 116:10 gives the answer. The psalmist referred to “the anguish of the grave” (116:3), but he affirmed his confidence that God would deliver him “from death” (116:8). That same confidence was Paul’s, so with the psalmist he could declare I believed. The second part of the quotation, Therefore I have spoken, is from the psalmist’s words about his own suffering: “Therefore I said, ‘I am greatly afflicted.’” Paul did not quote these last words from Psalm 116:10. But he probably expected his readers to understand that he had in mind his own disclosure of suffering in the preceding verses (2 Cor. 4:8-12) and throughout this letter.
Paul could speak of his suffering and death because he was confident that God would deliver him (cf. 1:9-10). This confidence was founded on the resurrection of Christ, the Firstfruit and Guarantee of resurrection for all who place their faith for salvation in Him (1 Cor. 15:12-19; 1 Thes. 4:14).”

(David K. Lowery, 2 Corinthians (The Bible Knowledge Commentary; ed. John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck; Accordance electronic ed. 2 vols.; Wheaton: Victor Books, 1983), 2:564.)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
2cor 4:13 concerns Paul in his affliction and how he could stand up under it

2 Cor. 4:8–13 —ESV
“We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.
For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
So death is at work in us, but life in you.
¶ Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak,”

“4:13-14. What enabled Paul to endure in the face of this suffering? His quotation of Psalm 116:10 gives the answer. The psalmist referred to “the anguish of the grave” (116:3), but he affirmed his confidence that God would deliver him “from death” (116:8). That same confidence was Paul’s, so with the psalmist he could declare I believed. The second part of the quotation, Therefore I have spoken, is from the psalmist’s words about his own suffering: “Therefore I said, ‘I am greatly afflicted.’” Paul did not quote these last words from Psalm 116:10. But he probably expected his readers to understand that he had in mind his own disclosure of suffering in the preceding verses (2 Cor. 4:8-12) and throughout this letter.
Paul could speak of his suffering and death because he was confident that God would deliver him (cf. 1:9-10). This confidence was founded on the resurrection of Christ, the Firstfruit and Guarantee of resurrection for all who place their faith for salvation in Him (1 Cor. 15:12-19; 1 Thes. 4:14).”

(David K. Lowery, 2 Corinthians (The Bible Knowledge Commentary; ed. John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck; Accordance electronic ed. 2 vols.; Wheaton: Victor Books, 1983), 2:564.)
I'm through with it. Believe your delusions
 

civic

Well-known member
How about patience? Any atheists out there ever exhibit patience? Or is this the part where you add to the text?
reread Galatians 5:22-23- the patience and gentleness that comes from above is not the same as the worlds. Just as the sorrow and repentance that comes from God is not the same as the world as per 2 Corinthians 7:10.

unitarians sure do not understand the difference between one who is born from above and one who is not.

that is to be expected since discernment only comes from God as a gift.

hope this helps !!!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
reread Galatians 5:22-23- the patience and gentleness that comes from above is not the same as the worlds. Just as the sorrow and repentance that comes from God is not the same as the world as per 2 Corinthians 7:10.

unitarians sure do not understand the difference between one who is born from above and one who is not.

that is to be expected since discernment only comes from God as a gift.

hope this helps !!!

There you go creating your own reality again. Why do you insist on a fantasy world for yourself?
 

civic

Well-known member
There you go creating your own reality again. Why do you insist on a fantasy world for yourself?
The only REALITY is Gods reality- the Biblical one. The world is an illusion and the god of this world has you duped as per 2 Corinthians 4:4.

You cannot discern the difference between the fruit of the Spirit and the world.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The only REALITY is Gods reality- the Biblical one.

You don't seem to know the difference between your own reality which you create for yourself and God's reality. Why is that?

The world is an illusion and the god of this world has you duped as per 2 Corinthians 4:4.

You cannot discern the difference between the fruit of the Spirit and the world.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Impossible. If they had faith it proves that they were born again of the Spirit. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 22

Here's your problem which you seem to be incessantly blind to.

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Galatians 3:2

It doesn't say, "Did you believe by receiving the Spirit" does it?

So then, this is not difficult. Was receiving the Spirit the result of believing what they heard? Or does Paul say that believing what they heard was the result of receiving the Spirit?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I'm through with it. Believe your delusions
Scripture in context is not a delusion

2 Cor. 4:8–13 —ESV
“We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.
For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
So death is at work in us, but life in you.
¶ Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak,”

“4:13-14. What enabled Paul to endure in the face of this suffering? His quotation of Psalm 116:10 gives the answer. The psalmist referred to “the anguish of the grave” (116:3), but he affirmed his confidence that God would deliver him “from death” (116:8). That same confidence was Paul’s, so with the psalmist he could declare I believed. The second part of the quotation, Therefore I have spoken, is from the psalmist’s words about his own suffering: “Therefore I said, ‘I am greatly afflicted.’” Paul did not quote these last words from Psalm 116:10. But he probably expected his readers to understand that he had in mind his own disclosure of suffering in the preceding verses (2 Cor. 4:8-12) and throughout this letter.
Paul could speak of his suffering and death because he was confident that God would deliver him (cf. 1:9-10). This confidence was founded on the resurrection of Christ, the Firstfruit and Guarantee of resurrection for all who place their faith for salvation in Him (1 Cor. 15:12-19; 1 Thes. 4:14).”
Taking it out of context leads to delusion
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Scripture in context is not a delusion

2 Cor. 4:8–13 —ESV
“We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.
For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
So death is at work in us, but life in you.
¶ Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak,”

“4:13-14. What enabled Paul to endure in the face of this suffering? His quotation of Psalm 116:10 gives the answer. The psalmist referred to “the anguish of the grave” (116:3), but he affirmed his confidence that God would deliver him “from death” (116:8). That same confidence was Paul’s, so with the psalmist he could declare I believed. The second part of the quotation, Therefore I have spoken, is from the psalmist’s words about his own suffering: “Therefore I said, ‘I am greatly afflicted.’” Paul did not quote these last words from Psalm 116:10. But he probably expected his readers to understand that he had in mind his own disclosure of suffering in the preceding verses (2 Cor. 4:8-12) and throughout this letter.
Paul could speak of his suffering and death because he was confident that God would deliver him (cf. 1:9-10). This confidence was founded on the resurrection of Christ, the Firstfruit and Guarantee of resurrection for all who place their faith for salvation in Him (1 Cor. 15:12-19; 1 Thes. 4:14).”
Taking it out of context leads to delusion
The context doesn't change anything, the verse is in the context. The ot saints had the same Spirit of Faith, the fruit of the Spirit.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The context doesn't change anything, the verse is in the context. The ot saints had the same Spirit of Faith, the fruit of the Spirit.
The context doesn't change anything, the verse is in the context. The ot saints had the same Spirit of Faith, the fruit of the Spirit.


Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Galatians 3:2

It doesn't say, "Did you believe by receiving the Spirit" does it?

Was receiving the Spirit the result of believing what they heard? Or does Paul say that believing what they heard was the result of receiving the Spirit?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Galatians 3:2

It doesn't say, "Did you believe by receiving the Spirit" does it?

Was receiving the Spirit the result of believing what they heard? Or does Paul say that believing what they heard was the result of receiving the Spirit?
Does not change anything. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22
 
Top