You are, once again, moving the goalposts.No, actually all I have to do is show that the truth and reality can't be known to exist in or occur with without a believing mind, because there is no other way or place that the truth and reality can be known to exist or occur. And your inability to name any other way or place is just more proof of that.
That's how the truth and reality works, as the truth and reality can't be known exist or occur without or outside of a believing mind. And if it could, then someone could tell us what that other way or place is that can make to the truth and reality known to exist and occur. But as of yet; no-one can.
Where we disagree is whether reality can exist without a believing mind.
Here, you are talking about whether it can be known to exist. Once more, and quite deliberately I suspect, you are confusing the map with the territory.
Knowable, yes. But the territory exists, either way.Strawman. No, rather both the map and the territory are still only knowable in and with a believing mind.
Knowable, no. But the territory exists, either way.Does this magical way or place "where" reality "can exist without a believing mind" have a way to exist and occur that's knowable?
Thinks just exist. Like that rock on Mars no one has ever seen. Nothing magical about it.And if this magical way or place you say exists that doesn't require a believing in order to exist and occur, then how come you can't say what it is and explain how it exists and occurs?
What would be magic would be the rock popping into existence the first time someone looks that way and sees it.
And yet they sill exist.Strawman. Actually no-one is capable naming a way or place that exists and occur without a believing mind.
The territoty was there before anyone named the places.
That is a whole different discussion, and there are arguments that something simply are not knowable. For example, if the universe is infinite, could we ever know that?My claim is that the truth and reality is 100% believable and knowable.
But none of that impinges on the issue of whether reality requires a believing mind to exist,
No, it is that reality does not require a believing mind to exist,And yours is that "reality" doesn't even consist of belief and knowledge.
And again, you confuse the map with the territory.Strawman. Sure it does, because the truth is that the only way and place reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind. So, if you remove belief and a mind, then you are left with nothing capable of making the truth and reality exist or occur. Remember, if existence, truth and reality is something that occurs, then it must have a believing mind to exist in and to occur with.
You start by saying a believing mind is required to know if reality exists, and conclude that it is required for it to exist at all!