Calvary is no Orange Bowl

[stiggy wiggy]

The Orange Bowl of 1984 had two competitive teams, Miami and Nebraska. As our arborist poster pointed out, to award Nebraska the victory without having earned it would be wrong. He thus concludes that God is wrong for awarding us salvation that we haven't earned, but which Christ has.

His mistake is obvious. The former is wrong because it cheats Miami. He failed to recognize that his silly analogy has no Miami correlate. Calvary's victory is at the expense of no one, except Satan. But maybe our arborist would like to make a case for giving Satan fair play.

He seems opposed to unearned gifts. Let's just be thankful he's never had kids.

 

[treeplanter]

The Orange Bowl of 1984 had two competitive teams, Miami and Nebraska. As our arborist poster pointed out, to award Nebraska the victory without having earned it would be wrong. He thus concludes that God is wrong for awarding us salvation that we haven't earned, but which Christ has.

His mistake is obvious. The former is wrong because it cheats Miami. He failed to recognize that his silly analogy has no Miami correlate. Calvary's victory is at the expense of no one, except Satan. But maybe our arborist would like to make a case for giving Satan fair play.

He seems opposed to unearned gifts. Let's just be thankful he's never had kids.

This has already been addressed on the Orange Bowl thread, but since you are obviously such a closet fan of repeats - here goes...


I didn't say that there is anything wrong with an unearned gift
All gifts are unearned - or they wouldn't be gifts to begin with, Stiggy!

What I am saying is that there is something inherently wrong with an unearned victory - you disagree?

And as for a Miami correlate - WE are the correlate
WE are the ones being cheated when made recipient of unearned victories

Or didn't you teach your kids that?

PS
The God that you worship doesn't understand what a gift is anyway
The 'gift' of salvation that He extends comes with strings attached

"Accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior OR go to Hell"
is NOT a gift!!!

Gifts are given unconditionally
Salvation carries with it certain conditions

ETA:
You know what's really silly, Stigs?
A God who can't figure out how to achieve victory over sin without first requiring that an innocent man be nailed to a cross
Now THAT is silly!

 

[Tiburon]

ETA:
You know what's really silly, Stigs?
A God who can't figure out how to achieve victory over sin without first requiring that an innocent man be nailed to a cross
Now THAT is silly!

If Jesus was in fact God then he wasn't innocent and was in fact the instigator of the whole sorry mess.

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

If Jesus was in fact God then he wasn't innocent and was in fact the instigator of the whole sorry mess.

Did you speak with Jesus?

 

[J regia]

Did you speak with Jesus?

Did you speak with Jesus?

Have you?

 

[stiggy wiggy]

This has already been addressed on the Orange Bowl thread, but since you are obviously such a closet fan of repeats - here goes...


I didn't say that there is anything wrong with an unearned gift
All gifts are unearned - or they wouldn't be gifts to begin with, Stiggy!

What I am saying is that there is something inherently wrong with an unearned victory - you disagree?

Do I see anything wrong with an unearned victory over Satan? NO! You feeling sorry for Satan?

And as for a Miami correlate - WE are the correlate
WE are the ones being cheated when made recipient of unearned victories

But Nebraska, not Miami, is the one awarded an unearned victory in your goofy analogy. You can't seem to properly assign correlates in your own analogy. Take a deep breath and try to diffuse your confusion.

"Accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior OR go to Hell"
is NOT a gift!!!!

Gifts are given unconditionally
Salvation carries with it certain conditions

"Waaaaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, you're making my rescue conditional. You're telling me if I don't grab your hand I'll drown. WAAAAAAAAH"

 

[Whateverman]

"Waaaaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, you're making my rescue conditional. You're telling me if I don't grab your hand I'll drown. WAAAAAAAAH"

You've always sucked at analogies.

"Waaaaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, you're making my rescue conditional. You're telling me if I don't praise you as the lifeguard who created this pool, and that I'm not worthy to swim in it but that I love you - I'll drown. WAAAAAAAAH"

 

[stiggy wiggy]

You've always sucked at analogies.

"Waaaaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, you're making my rescue conditional. You're telling me if I don't praise you as the lifeguard who created this pool, and that I'm not worthy to swim in it but that I love you - I'll drown. WAAAAAAAAH"

Prove salvation is contingent upon praising God. Learn elementary Christianity before mouthing off about it.

 

[SteveB]

Prove salvation is contingent upon praising God. Learn elementary Christianity before mouthing off about it.

You do realize that educating one's self goes against their beliefs?

 

[treeplanter]

Do I see anything wrong with an unearned victory over Satan? NO! You feeling sorry for Satan?



But Nebraska, not Miami, is the one awarded an unearned victory in your goofy analogy. You can't seem to properly assign correlates in your own analogy. Take a deep breath and try to diffuse your confusion.



"Waaaaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, you're making my rescue conditional. You're telling me if I don't grab your hand I'll drown. WAAAAAAAAH"

Nope - I don't feel sorry for Satan {No such being exists, Stigs}
I feel sorry for human beings

Human beings are the ones being cheated though the awarding of undeserved victories

I feel sorry, even - in a sense - for the concept of integrity, itself
It's integrity that suffers through the awarding of unearned and undeserved victories

I guess you never bothered to teach your kids about integrity and the importance and value of earning what they have and doing what is right simply for the sake of doing what is right...


And yes, Stiggy
"Waaaaaah, you won't save me unless I reach for your hand"
is an absolutely appropriate response to the lie that we have been told

The lie that you continue to spread
Despite what you say, salvation is NOT a free gift

A gift is God grabbing each of us by the scruffs of our necks and delivering us to safety {salvation}
God demanding that one reach for His hand {glorifying Him} before He will deign to save is selfishness!

 

[stiggy wiggy]

I feel sorry for human beings

OK, How about porcupiness?

Human beings are the ones being cheated though the awarding of undeserved victories

And to whom do they correspond? Miami? Nebraska? Pick one and I'll show you how you already picked the other in trying to make sense of your own goofy analogy.

I feel sorry, even - in a sense - for the concept of integrity, itself

Lol. Now you're feeling sorry for concepts, noble ones even. Lol.

And yes, Stiggy
"Waaaaaah, you won't save me unless I reach for your hand"
is an absolutely appropriate response

If ya wanna drown, lol.

God demanding that one reach for His hand {glorifying Him}

"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"

 

[SteveB]

OK, How about porcupiness?



And to whom do they correspond? Miami? Nebraska? Pick one and I'll show you how you already picked the other in trying to make sense of your own goofy analogy.



Lol. Now you're feeling sorry for concepts, noble ones even. Lol.



If ya wanna drown, lol.



"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"

Here's irony for you.....

From Psalm 50.

Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify Me.”

Having enjoyed his delivery, in a number of different, and most often exceedingly troublesome situations..... I have no problem whatsoever glorifying hm!
I actually find great joy and satisfaction in doing so.

I'm curious if the arborist gets any satisfaction out of railing on him.

 

[treeplanter]

OK, How about porcupiness?



And to whom do they correspond? Miami? Nebraska? Pick one and I'll show you how you already picked the other in trying to make sense of your own goofy analogy.



Lol. Now you're feeling sorry for concepts, noble ones even. Lol.



If ya wanna drown, lol.



"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"

"Porcupiness"
What is that?
Queen of the porcupines?


To whom do cheated human beings correspond?
To both Huskers AND Hurricanes!

Miami would have been cheated had Nebraska been awarded a victory unearned
Nebraska, also, would have been cheated had they been awarded a victory unearned

We are all cheated, Stiggy - when integrity, itself, is circumvented via the awarding of unearned and undeserved victory!


Salvation is NOT a free gift
Salvation is entirely dependent upon our "reaching for His hand"

Instead of repeating
"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"
like a MeTV parrot...

Why don't you dispute my assertion or, better yet, just agree that I am 100% correct?

 

[treeplanter]

Here's irony for you.....

From Psalm 50.

Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify Me.”

Having enjoyed his delivery, in a number of different, and most often exceedingly troublesome situations..... I have no problem whatsoever glorifying hm!
I actually find great joy and satisfaction in doing so.

I'm curious if the arborist gets any satisfaction out of railing on him.

Precisely why you are spineless and quivering, Steve!

You enjoy glorifying the One who caused your day of trouble

Where I come from, {as you are fond of saying} only an idiot would enjoy groveling before the root of evil

 

[SteveB]

Precisely why you are spineless and quivering, Steve!

You enjoy glorifying the One who caused your day of trouble

Where I come from, {as you are fond of saying} only an idiot would enjoy groveling before the root of evil

Actually, it's beings who drive your hate and madness who've caused my days of trouble.
The root of evil....
that's the love of money.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

To whom do cheated human beings correspond?
To both Huskers AND Hurricanes!

You screwed up your analogy, didn't ya? Now you have no choice but to equate you correlates, transforming your goofy analogy into an even goofier equation.

We are all cheated, Stiggy - when integrity, itself, is circumvented via the awarding of unearned and undeserved victory!

I've been awarded eternal life. You can cheat me all day that way.

Salvation is not a free gift
Salvation is entirely dependent upon our "reaching for His hand"

Instead of repeating
"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"
like a MeTV parrot...

[.......he stupidly types as he parrots, " Salvation is not a free gift
Salvation is entirely dependent upon our "reaching for His hand"]

"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"

 

[treeplanter]

Actually, it's beings who drive your hate and madness who've caused my days of trouble.
The root of evil....
that's the love of money.

If God is the alpha and the omega - as is claimed - then He is the root of evil

 

[SteveB]

If God is the alpha and the omega - as is claimed - then He is the root of evil

I thought you renounced telling me how to think.
Which is it Tree?
Not according to the bible.
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

 

[treeplanter]

You screwed up your analogy, didn't ya? Now you have no choice but to equate you correlates, transforming your goofy analogy into an even goofier equation.



I've been awarded eternal life. You can cheat me all day that way.



[.......he stupidly types as he parrots, " Salvation is not a free gift
Salvation is entirely dependent upon our "reaching for His hand"]

"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"

Screwed up?
No, not at all

I intended to introduce the concept of God awarding unearned and undeserved victory through a lens of football and that is exactly what I did!

To award victory in a football game when it has not been earned is wrong
Likewise, to award victory over sin when it has not been earned is also wrong

That you recognize that it is wrong in the former, but not the latter - is proof positive that you are hypocritical and severely lacking in logic


Prove that salvation is a gift, Stiggy!
Gifts come without strings
Gifts, by definition, are unconditional

God's salvation, however, IS conditional

God says:
"Reach for my hand or I will let you drown!"

God says:
"Accept Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior or I will send you to Hell!"

Don't parrot your lame and tired line:
"Waaaah, Mr. Lifeguard, if I reach for your hand I'll be glorifying you. WAAAAAH!"

Prove me wrong!!!

 

[treeplanter]

I thought you renounced telling me how to think.
Which is it Tree?
Not according to the bible.
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

I'm not telling you what to think, Steve
I'm telling you what logic dictates

If God is the beginning and the end and if He is comprehensive and if everything that is and can be is included in Him - then He IS the root of evil - whether you like it or not!

Whether a bit of scripture corresponds or not!