Calvinism and Determinism

Manfred

Well-known member
Allow me to point out the irrationality of your reply

You are arguing if God afore hand prepared gentiles for glory he must have prepared the Israelites for destruction from before the foundation of the earth

It's a complete non sequitur
Not only from the Jews but the gentiles also.

That's there in scripture,which you are clearly unable to discern.
You think scripture applies only to Jews even when Paul states not only for the Jews but the gentiles also.

You constantly brag that scripture devoid of the Spirit is your authority, and it's evident how you wrongly render scripture using your carnal mind.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Not only from the Jews but the gentiles also.

That's there in scripture,which you are clearly unable to discern.
You think scripture applies only to Jews even when Paul states not only for the Jews but the gentiles also.

You constantly brag that scripture devoid of the Spirit is your authority, and it's evident how you wrongly render scripture using your carnal mind.
Sorry you still have a non sequitur

you have failed to produce a single verse which supports your claim and you contradicted scripture

2 Timothy 2:20-21 (KJV)
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

funny how that works

I'm carnal according to you but I can produce scripture you who believes you are spiritual cannot address

kind of points out the falsehood of your claims
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Mountebank you are still prevaricating

If you want to go on attempting your deceptions you are only exposing yourself

Hello this pertains to Is 55:11 and 46:10 Note both refer to God doing what he pleases

No one can stop God from doing what he pleases but himself

You simply ignore that fact there are factors in God which do not allow for the salvation of all

Romans 3:25-26 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

One being his righteousness


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

That basically is the same thing Theo had stated

And you acknowledged he had an answer so you are being rather disengenuous

Remember you posted those verses to address

1 Timothy 2:4 (KJV)

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


and if you read Isa 55:11 and 46:10 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
(Complete Apostles' Bible) Shall I in any way desire the death of the sinner, says he Lord, as I desire that he should turn from his evil way, and live?
(CLV) Do I at all desire the death of the wicked? An affirmation of the Lord Yahweh, Is it not in his turning back from his way--And he has lived?
(Geneva) Haue I any desire that the wicked should die, sayth the Lord God? or shall he not liue, if he returne from his wayes?

Eze 18:32
.(AOB) FOR I DESIRE NOT THE DEATH OF HIM THAT DIES, SAITH JESUS.
(Brenton) For I desire not the death of him that dies, saith the Lord.
(DRB) For I desire not the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God, return ye and live.
(JB2000) For I do not desire the death of him that dies, said the Lord GOD; therefore turn and ye shall live.
(Geneva) For I desire not the death of him that dyeth, sayth the Lord God: cause therefore one another to returne, and liue ye.
(JUB) For I do not desire the death of him that dies, said the Lord GOD; therefore turn yourselves, and ye shall live.

Eze 33:11
(DRB) Say to them: As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: and why will you die, O house of Israel?
(JB2000) Say unto them, I live, said the Lord GOD, I do not desire the death of the wicked but that the wicked turn from his way and that he live; turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
(Geneva) Say vnto them, As I liue, sayeth the Lorde God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turne from his way & liue: turne you, turne you from your euill waies, for why will ye die, O ye house of Israel?
(JUB) Say unto them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I do not desire the death of the wicked but that the wicked turn from his way and that he live; turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Skip. Cut and paste
 

Kampioen

Active member
Why not at least answer part of Tom's post. What about this part ...
[fltom's post]
and if you read Isa 55:11 and 46:10 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Why not at least answer part of Tom's post. What about this part ...

[fltom's post]
and if you read Isa 55:11 and 46:10 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
Now it's not a absolute? Post them and let's see. You posted 55:10. Why not verse 11? Coward
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Why not at least answer part of Tom's post. What about this part ...

[fltom's post]
and if you read Isa 55:11 and 4 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
Because he refuses to answer in kind. He has stated before he does not have to answer. But I do? Where is this rule written.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Skip. Cut and paste
read and deal with what was already written

Hello this pertains to Is 55:11 and 46:10 Note both refer to God doing what he pleases

No one can stop God from doing what he pleases but himself

You simply ignore that fact there are factors in God which do not allow for the salvation of all

Romans 3:25-26 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

One being his righteousness


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

That basically is the same thing Theo had stated

And you acknowledged he had an answer so you are being rather disengenuous

Remember you posted those verses to address

1 Timothy 2:4 (KJV)

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


and if you read Isa 55:11 and 46:10 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
(Complete Apostles' Bible) Shall I in any way desire the death of the sinner, says he Lord, as I desire that he should turn from his evil way, and live?
(CLV) Do I at all desire the death of the wicked? An affirmation of the Lord Yahweh, Is it not in his turning back from his way--And he has lived?
(Geneva) Haue I any desire that the wicked should die, sayth the Lord God? or shall he not liue, if he returne from his wayes?

Eze 18:32
.(AOB) FOR I DESIRE NOT THE DEATH OF HIM THAT DIES, SAITH JESUS.
(Brenton) For I desire not the death of him that dies, saith the Lord.
(DRB) For I desire not the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God, return ye and live.
(JB2000) For I do not desire the death of him that dies, said the Lord GOD; therefore turn and ye shall live.
(Geneva) For I desire not the death of him that dyeth, sayth the Lord God: cause therefore one another to returne, and liue ye.
(JUB) For I do not desire the death of him that dies, said the Lord GOD; therefore turn yourselves, and ye shall live.

Eze 33:11
(DRB) Say to them: As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: and why will you die, O house of Israel?
(JB2000) Say unto them, I live, said the Lord GOD, I do not desire the death of the wicked but that the wicked turn from his way and that he live; turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
(Geneva) Say vnto them, As I liue, sayeth the Lorde God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turne from his way & liue: turne you, turne you from your euill waies, for why will ye die, O ye house of Israel?
(JUB) Say unto them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I do not desire the death of the wicked but that the wicked turn from his way and that he live; turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Because he refuses to answer in kind. He has stated before he does not have to answer. But I do? Where is this rule written.
You are fabricating again

you received an answer

first you did not want to read it

then you don't want to respond to what was written

now you lie

I never stated I don't want to answer

and You were in fact answered
 

fltom

Well-known member
Why not at least answer part of Tom's post. What about this part ...

[fltom's post]
and if you read Isa 55:11 and 46:10 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
He would rather deceive and pretend no answer was given

God does what he pleases/desires and no one can stop however he must remain true to himself

The bible is clear God desires the salvation of all and that none would perish however his justice and righteousness precludes him from saving the unrepentant

RG wants to make God's desire absolute however that leads him to universalism and a denial of scripture

His theology would also make God desire sin
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
read and deal with what was already written

Hello this pertains to Is 55:11 and 46:10 Note both refer to God doing what he pleases

No one can stop God from doing what he pleases but himself

You simply ignore that fact there are factors in God which do not allow for the salvation of all

Romans 3:25-26 (KJV)
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

One being his righteousness


@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

That basically is the same thing Theo had stated

And you acknowledged he had an answer so you are being rather disengenuous

Remember you posted those verses to address

1 Timothy 2:4 (KJV)

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


and if you read Isa 55:11 and 46:10 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
(Complete Apostles' Bible) Shall I in any way desire the death of the sinner, says he Lord, as I desire that he should turn from his evil way, and live?
(CLV) Do I at all desire the death of the wicked? An affirmation of the Lord Yahweh, Is it not in his turning back from his way--And he has lived?
(Geneva) Haue I any desire that the wicked should die, sayth the Lord God? or shall he not liue, if he returne from his wayes?

Eze 18:32
.(AOB) FOR I DESIRE NOT THE DEATH OF HIM THAT DIES, SAITH JESUS.
(Brenton) For I desire not the death of him that dies, saith the Lord.
(DRB) For I desire not the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God, return ye and live.
(JB2000) For I do not desire the death of him that dies, said the Lord GOD; therefore turn and ye shall live.
(Geneva) For I desire not the death of him that dyeth, sayth the Lord God: cause therefore one another to returne, and liue ye.
(JUB) For I do not desire the death of him that dies, said the Lord GOD; therefore turn yourselves, and ye shall live.

Eze 33:11
(DRB) Say to them: As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: and why will you die, O house of Israel?
(JB2000) Say unto them, I live, said the Lord GOD, I do not desire the death of the wicked but that the wicked turn from his way and that he live; turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
(Geneva) Say vnto them, As I liue, sayeth the Lorde God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turne from his way & liue: turne you, turne you from your euill waies, for why will ye die, O ye house of Israel?
(JUB) Say unto them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I do not desire the death of the wicked but that the wicked turn from his way and that he live; turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

You are fabricating again

you received an answer

first you did not want to read it

then you don't want to respond to what was written

now you lie

I never stated I don't want to answer

and You were in fact answered
He created the unrepentant. He sustains the unrepentant. Why?
 

fltom

Well-known member
He created the unrepentant. He sustains the unrepentant. Why?
Nowhere dies the bible state he created people to be unrepentant

however

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Why not at least answer part of Tom's post. What about this part ...

[fltom's post]
and if you read Isa 55:11 and 46:10 as absolute you must be a universalist

for multiple verses speak of God desire that any not perish and all come to salvation

Eze 18:23
(Calvin 1856) Do I earnestly desire the death of the wicked, says the Lord Jehovah? Do I not desire that he turn from his evil ways and live?
For over 40 posts he has not addressed that
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Nowhere dies the bible state he created people to be unrepentant

however

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Once again Tom denies God's omniscience.

Did He not create all that exists and sustains it all? If He did not create the unrepentant who did?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Once again Tom denies God's omniscience.

Did He not create all that exists and sustains it all? If He did not create the unrepentant who did?
Once again you fabricate

I stated no such thing

There is a great difference between knowing how a man will turn out and creating him to be vessel of destruction
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Nowhere dies the bible state he created people to be unrepentant

however

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Once again you fabricate

I stated no such thing

There is a great difference between knowing how a man will turn out and creating him to be vessel of destruction
But He did know how He would turn out before the world was yet created him anyway. In your dumb theology even knowing this, according to the choice meat crowd, He made provision for something that He knows is never going to happen. How does He know? He created it that way thats how He knows.
 

fltom

Well-known member
But He did know how He would turn out before the world was yet created him anyway. In your dumb theology even knowing this, according to the choice meat crowd, He made provision for something that He knows is never going to happen. How does He know? He created it that way thats how He knows.
Doesn't your theology hold God cannot know what he did not determine?

Your theology has God redeeming his determinations and angry that men have done what he determined them to do

Its rather irrational
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Doesn't your theology hold God cannot know what he did not determine?

Your theology has God redeeming his determinations and angry that men have done what he determined them to do

Its rather irrational
What does redeeming His determinations mean? Here we go with the silliness
 

fltom

Well-known member
What does redeeming His determinations mean? Here we go with the silliness
What you could not figure it out?

I believe this has been discussed before

The idea is in your theology God has determined things which he later has to take action to change
 
Top