Calvinism teaches God is the Author of evil

[CookedGoose]

Wages of sin is death, yes people die, but there are two deaths, a physical one and a spiritual one.

ok

If you claim everyone who dies an actual physical death must be a sinner, you have to include Jesus Christ in that, because he died an actual physical death, but we know he commited no sin.

I'm not sure you do. Jesus is God and is not in the same position as babies in the covenant. He's different (you might say)
It's well known in scripture He's the only unblemished lamb, which makes Him unique.

Also this is why we're going to have to define "death" in more specific terms. It's arguable He was not simply unconscious for 3 days or that He was separated from the Father for 3 days. "Death" in Christ's case is arguably unique or at least needs to be defined. Get's into a different topic.

So yes people die a physical death, Hebrews 9:27. The question is do the unborn and new born babies, children break Gods law,

That's not necessarily the question. It could also be that sin is inherited from Adam. It's possible sin is imputed on them from the start as per the curse of Adam. It's possible Adam plunged all of humanity into a position of sin, including his descendants even though they have done "neither good nor evil".

just because they physically die, is that proof, that they will come under judgement and be found guilty?

Not at all in my opinion. Jesus will find His sheep and seek them out. He will even save babies if they're sheep.

It seems to me you point to Romans 6:23 that babies who die physically, that must there for be proof they will die spiritually too.

I'm not saying that and I don't know that. I have no way of knowing which babies are save spiritually and which babies aren't.
I don't think I'm alone here.....

If Jesus did not break Gods laws, where is your evidence an unborn baby has broken them? Are you going to cite that they can't believe in Jesus, so they have no faith, but that would mean all babies would not be able to do that, so therefore every baby that dies, goes to hell,

I'm not conflating different kinds of "death" in Romans 6. More or less taking Paul literally.
But I'm not saying every baby goes to hell. Largely because I don't know that and don't believe that.

but King David doesn't agree with you, does he? Who is closer to the truth you or Kind David, a man after Gods own heart, who would know God best?

Well, I don't believe you're interpreting David's statement completely accurate. I don't think he was that dumb.

If you want to believe babies are cursed and will go to hell, believe it, but I don't.

I haven't said that. Strawman.
Now even though babies don't "believe" and belief is a requirement in free will, you say they all go to heaven.
Why?

I had a busy day today.

 

[Theo1689]

The wages of sin, says you must die, so what went wrong?

Who says anything went wrong?

If they were righteous and God can save them, why can't the unborn babys be considered righteous and be saved,

Because we need SCRIPTURE which proclaims, "babys [sic] are considered righteousness".
Scripture nowhere teaches this.

what sin does a unborn baby commit?

What sin does my friend Carl from Texas commit?

This is the logical fallacy that non-Calvinists use.
It's not enough for God to show they are all sinners. But you demand we IDENTIFY their specific sins. That's not our job. That's simply making excuses to reject Scripture.

It's nice to quote the wages of sin, but it didn't work here.

Why not?
So you're simply throwing out Scripture now?

What it says is he didn't go to hell and David knew that. Was the child elect, how would David know that, was he guessing?

We would need to really discuss Scripture.
I know you don't want to do that, you simply want to ASSUME your own imagined theology.

So how did David know his child was elect?

I don't believe Scripture answers that.
But you don't get to make up your OWN answers.

So belief is not mandatory in your theology? Excuse me.

<sigh>
Where did he say that?

Kind David said he will be with his child, he didn't know he was elect, did the child believe in Christ? That is biblical scripture, which is what I believe in.

Questions from you are biblical scripture?!
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

What law of God does an unborn baby break?

Scripture is silent, but I'm guessing all of them.
I don't need to know anyone's specific sins.
I only need to know that they are sinners.
What God does with them is up to Him, not up to you, nor me.

Common sense, God who is just will not hold them to account for a lack of faith. What kind of God do you believe in?

So God just overlooks sin?!
Great, so EVERYONE is saved!

 

[CookedGoose]

Neither of us believe Jesus sinned.

The bible claims He was unique in that way. You're claiming He was just like countless babies who die.

The wages of sin, says you must die, so what went wrong? If they were righteous and God can save them, why can't the unborn babys be considered righteous and be saved, what sin does a unborn baby commit? It's nice to quote the wages of sin, but it didn't work here.

I agree.

If you agree sin was passed on to Adam's descendants,..... and babies are Adam's descendants.........and.......the wages of sin is death
and..........babies die

Then how can you claim they're unilaterally sinless? Seems pretty "open and shut".

What it says is he didn't go to hell and David knew that. Was the child elect, how would David know that, was he guessing?

So how did David know his child was elect?

So belief is not mandatory in your theology? Excuse me.

Passing the buck. The point is free will doesn't have an answer for this issue.

Kind David said he will be with his child, he didn't know he was elect, did the child believe in Christ? That is biblical scripture, which is what I believe in.

It's your theology that makes a claim some will go to hell, not mine. If you claim they had to have belief, then that applies to your theology too, doesn't it?

What law of God does an unborn baby break?

Maybe it wasn't babies who broke it. Maybe it was Adam and the consequences of it are passed to all of us, including babies.
An inheritance can be either good or bad. Maybe we got a bad inheritance.

Apparently you've already affirmed as much.

The bible states you have to have faith in Christ, your claiming now you don't it seems. So how do the elect babies under Calvinism get saved then, if they can't hear the word of God or trust in Jesus for their salvation, how does God in Calvinism save the elect babies?

He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.

Common sense, God who is just will not hold them to account for a lack of faith. What kind of God do you believe in?

Yet you affirm death passed through Adam to his descendants.

Kind David knew God, he thought so, I fancy he knew God pretty well.

He probably did.

 

[armylngst]

Arminianism: God is man's SLAVE!

I wouldn't go that far. Those who believe in free will as God, bend God to their free will, hence make God their slave. Arminians (who I believe can be and are saved), just need to study soteriology. (And study the nature of God, in as much as one is not stepping into the domain of that which God has not shared, thus running where angels fear to trod.)

 

[SovereignGrace]

But the wages of sin is death, so you can still die, even if your not under Gods judgement or broken his laws, are you in agreement with that?

Here’s the thing, the flesh is not redeemed upon conversion and that’s why even the saved die physically.

 

[preacher4truth]

But the wages of sin is death,

Yes, Romans 6:23.

so you can still die, even if your not under Gods judgement

There is no such state outside of Christ, all the lost are condemned already; John 3:18, the whole world is guilty before God; Romans 3:19. These are basic truths that have escaped you.

or broken his laws,

That's why the whole world is guilty before God.

are you in agreement with that?

No way, ever.

 

[eternomade]

how does God in Calvinism save the elect babies?

The same we He saves all His people, by the shedding of Christ's blood on Calvary. You're so obsessed with your faith you miss the cross.

 

[eternomade]

Kind David knew God, he thought so, I fancy he knew God pretty well.

King David is a picture of Christ. He is the only person to hold Prophet, Priest and King. This is why His firstborn son with Bathsheba had to die...

 

[Leatherneck0311]

The same we He saves all His people, by the shedding of Christ's blood on Calvary. You're so obsessed with your faith you miss the cross.

You either have faith in Jesus ( or you don’t) which entails doing as Jesus taught.Jesus gave those that wanted to follow Him one command which was to work the work of God to believe on Him who God had sent. If election as Calvinist believe is true wouldn’t Jesus have said one word about election ? Why , if God gifts faith, did Jesus say we have to:Jhn 6:29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[eternomade]

Why , if God gifts faith, did Jesus say we have to:Jhn 6:29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I don't really know how else to explain it to you. Faith is a fruit of the spirit, Galatians 5.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

I don't really know how else to explain it to you. Faith is a fruit of the spirit, Galatians 5.

That is NOT what Jesus nor the scriptures teach. Increased faith after one is saved is given by God. Ephesians 2:8,9 says for BY grace are you saved THROUGH faith It is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast . It ( is a gift) a(gift of God) both singular. For faith to be a gift the verse would have to read they(are gifts). Grace was provided by God and the faith is what you place in Jesus if you believe God.The verse does NOT say they are gifts. It and a are singular but Calvinist change whatever doesn’t fit their errors by changing the context of scripture, sadly.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is NOT what Jesus nor the scriptures teach. Increased faith after one is saved is given by God. Ephesians 2:8,9 says for BY grace are you saved THROUGH faith It is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast . It ( is a gift) a(gift of God) both singular. For faith to be a gift the verse would have to read they(are gifts). Grace was provided by God and the faith is what you place in Jesus if you believe God.The verse does NOT say they are gifts. It and a are singular but Calvinist change whatever doesn’t fit their errors by changing the context of scripture, sadly.

Sorry, not sorry,


Um, sorry champ, but it doesn't say it is "a" gift of God. It literally says the gift of God. All of it is the gift. Your argument is frankly asinine.

You sure got schooled here, @eternomade lolzzz...

 

[LeeH]

Here’s the thing, the flesh is not redeemed upon conversion and that’s why even the saved die physically.

Agreed.

 

[SovereignGrace]

That is NOT what Jesus nor the scriptures teach. Increased faith after one is saved is given by God. Ephesians 2:8,9 says for BY grace are you saved THROUGH faith It is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast . It ( is a gift) a(gift of God) both singular. For faith to be a gift the verse would have to read they(are gifts). Grace was provided by God and the faith is what you place in Jesus if you believe God.The verse does NOT say they are gifts. It and a are singular but Calvinist change whatever doesn’t fit their errors by changing the context of scripture, sadly.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Nice try but you swung and miss on this one.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sorry, not sorry,


Um, sorry champ, but it doesn't say it is "a" gift of God. It literally says the gift of God. All of it is the gift. Your argument is frankly asinine.

You sure got schooled here, @eternomade lolzzz...

He gets schooled all the time on here, but he’s absent those days.

 

[preacher4truth]

He gets schooled all the time on here, but he’s absent those days.

Or he puts the ones who do so on ignore. If a person appears to acquiesce to him he keeps responding.

 

[Christian]

I'm quoting calvinists- I deny their false teaching.

Read calvin below:

“But it is quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.” Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God page 176

“But the objection is not yet resolved, that if all things are done by the will of God, and men contrive nothing except by His will and ordination, then God is the author of all evils.” Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.179

God is the AUTHOR !

Did you read that ?

Huge RED FLAG should be in every persons mind when they read the above and compare the above false teaching with Scripture below.

James 1
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

 

[Reformedguy]

Huge RED FLAG should be in every persons mind when they read the above and compare the above false teaching with Scripture below.

James 1
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

What did he mean by author?

 

[Christian]

What did he mean by author?

What does it mean if you are the author of a book, a story ?

 

[preacher4truth]

What did he mean by author?

BINGO!!! None of them bother to define what they mean, or even know WHAT it means, it only helps them continue to offer derogation and false accusations.