In your view, does the Biblical order of salvation have Regeneration before Repentance and even Justification?
Calvinist Ordo Salutis
- Thread starter Synergy
- Start date
Theo1689
Well-known member
In 30 years I've never seen an "inconsistency".
I've only seen haters invent straw-man arguments to try to CREATE imaginary "inconsistences".
Theo1689
Well-known member
Why do we need your "feedback"?!
You never accept OUR "feedback" when we show you the alleged "inconsistences" in Calvinism aren't real.
Sounds very hypocritical to me.
Carbon
Super Member
I see the biblical order as salvation is of the Lord.
As far as, what comes before what?
Let me ask you a question. Can a God hater, one who is at enmity with God, one who scripture teaches does not seek God, and is mot able to……Repent?
Are you ok with Repentance before Regeneration?
The Holy Spirit has the ability to convict and speak to the heart of any unbeliever. Then it's up to the unbeliever to chose to repent, with God's help of course, or chose to not repent. In your example, the unbeliever will be a tough nut to crack but with God anything is possible.
Carbon
Super Member
Since your here and assume the position as a teacher on theological issues, you tell me my position on your question, as it should be easy to answer. I’ll take no offense.
Well your half right.
In my example? I don’t think you understand my view and example. God is soverigne. Man is not. God does as He pleases, man cannot. God’s word does not return void, man’s does.
Getting it yet?
Theo1689
Well-known member
And they will always choose not to, unless they are regenerated by God.
That "help" is called "regeneration".
eternomade
Well-known member
I believe it goes like this:
Predestination (election and reprobation)
Atonement (redemption, reconciliation, justification, sanctification, adoption)
Regeneration (gospel call)
Faith and repentance
Conversion
Glorification
Predestination (election and reprobation)
Atonement (redemption, reconciliation, justification, sanctification, adoption)
Regeneration (gospel call)
Faith and repentance
Conversion
Glorification
christ_undivided
Well-known member
Nicodemus wasn't. Have you read John 3 recently? Jesus told Nicodemus that he should have understood being born from above. Like most any religious person, he didn't. He trusted his peers instead of the One right infront of him.
FYI. Your partner denies Jesus Christ
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Not quite. It would have been more accurate to say:
"It is always your opinion of what suits your personal desires that you go by."
You will do well to realize it has nothing to do with making sense.
How can I possibly tell you your position when I don't even know you. Seriously, are you testing my telepathic abilities?
Then who does the repenting if the unbeliever does choose to repent?
Almost all unbelievers I know of are agnostics. I don't know of any hard-core God hater who is at enmity with God.
Carbon
Super Member
Why not tell God this? Let Him know you don’t agree with His word.
@fltom
Thank you for that list. It's interesting that Justification is before Regeneration. Since Justification can only come from Faith & Good Works then Faith is before Regeneration.
Where does my observation conflict with the Bible, pray tell.
There are unbelievers that do good out there:
Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Carbon
Super Member
You don’t know? Really?
There really are unbelievers out there that practice good consciences and have good hearts. Not every unbeliever is a hard-core God hater who is at enmity with God. You must live in a tough neighborhood.
Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Carbon
Super Member
eternomade
Well-known member
I believe that the OT saints were kept under the forbearance of God until Christ death on the cross. I believe all the elect were justified in Christ's death at the cross and Faith comes by hearing the Gospel.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 5:9 KJV
In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Isaiah 45:25 KJV
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11 KJV
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16 KJV
Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Carbon
Super Member
Read Roman’s 1 first bud.