Calvinists...time to reflect...from one to another.

civic

Well-known member
Yes, I figured that was what you meant. You cited that when asking if He went from being a spirit to human, or was it human to spirit.
But Heb 13:8 does not address that.
Sure it addresses it since your jesus changed from a man to not a human. That violates Heb 13:8 just like it would violate the passage if one claimed he went from being God to not God or from being not God to becoming God .

So no matter how one slices it the passages is violated by a change in Jesus Deity or humanity.

hope this helps !!!
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Sure it addresses it since your jesus changed from a man to not a human. That violates Heb 13:8 just like it would violate the passage if one claimed he went from being God to not God or from being not God to becoming God .

So no matter how one slices it the passages is violated by a change in Jesus Deity or humanity.

hope this helps !!!
No. Heb 13:8 does not address His humanity. That is not even in the context of the chapter
 

civic

Well-known member
No. Heb 13:8 does not address His humanity. That is not even in the context of the chapter
It must address His humanity since There was no Jesus apart from His humanity . Jesus is His human name. So Jesus the man/ human did not change , He is the same changeless Savior, Priest, King, Mediator, man etc….
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
It must address His humanity since There was no Jesus apart from His humanity . Jesus is His human name. So Jesus the man/ human did not change , He is the same changeless Savior, Priest, King, Mediator, man etc….
No, Civic, you are justifying claiming a verse addresses something that clearly is not stated in the verse.
This kind of logic gets you off into doctrinal never never land.
 

civic

Well-known member
No, Civic, you are justifying claiming a verse addresses something that clearly is not stated in the verse.
This kind of logic gets you off into doctrinal never never land.
Wrong the entire book of Hebrews is addressing Jesus present state as man, king , priest, mediator, Intercessor etc…. He is changeless in all those areas and as the book states His offices and roles are the same when the book was written as they are now and prior when Jesus was resurrected / ascended . He is the same Jesus as the angels told the disciples - this SAME Jesus whom you have seen ascending into heaven will come back the same .

You see I can harmonize all scripture concerning the Son, you cannot.

hope this helps!!!
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Wrong the entire book of Hebrews is addressing Jesus present state as man, king , priest, mediator, Intercessor etc…. He is changeless in all those areas and as the book states His offices and roles are the same when the book was written as they are now and prior when Jesus was resurrected / ascended . He is the same Jesus as the angels told the disciples - this SAME Jesus whom you have seen ascending into heaven will come back the same .

You see I can harmonize all scripture concerning the Son, you cannot.

hope this helps!!!
I wonder why none of your "friends" here will correct you on your misunderstanding of "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.
 

civic

Well-known member
I wonder why none of your "friends" here will correct you on your misunderstanding of "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.
Everything you just quoted is true and found in Hebrews which comes from the same author / book that says He is the same and nothing has changed - your false christ changed , my Christ the real Jesus has not changed at all and still remains a man who is God.

hope this helps !!!
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I wonder why none of your "friends" here will correct you on your misunderstanding of "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.

Because YOU are the one with the "misunderstanding", not civic.

That's why you refuse to answer my questions.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Everything you just quoted is true and found in Hebrews which comes from the same author / book that says He is the same and nothing has changed - your false christ changed , my Christ the real Jesus has not changed at all and still remains a man who is God.

hope this helps !!!
You believe God became a man and there was no change when that happened. I do not.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Hey brothers and sisters. The vitriol that has been cast toward me as a Calvinist? I'm used to it. In fact, I was worse toward said "Calvinists" when I was against them.

It's easy to cast aspersions, spew venom...you know...be unChristlike. (WARNING: I'm not the standard for being Christlike...CHRIST is.)

When I first grasped the fact that God's sovereignty meant that I had NOTHING to do with anything good--including my own salvation... I cried...wept, in fact. It. Was. Hard. Just like reading the Bible and actually READING it...when you realize it's not what I think, but what God says.

I still struggle with that. It's called SIN.

I just realized that whenever I need credit for ANYTHING, it's sin.

So...my bloviating aside, my "Calvinist" (Biblical) brothers and sisters, what was your "a-ha" moment when you realized that God was right?
I had a friend in our church who was one of a handful of Calvinists in the church. He tried to explain it to me and I was completely baffled that anyone would believe it. I thought it made God seem capricious and cruel.

I was a new Christian and I had a lot of zeal, but no wisdom and absolutely zero discernment. I ended up getting involved with the WoF cult and, long story short, realized it was nonsense and that I was a false convert.

I wasn't saved, I was just a false convert, but I still loved going to church, mostly for the social aspect.

By this time, I had moved and started attending a church where the Gospel, the real Gospel and the whole Gospel was put right in front of me and I had no choice but to repent and receive Christ. And, as the men in that church discipled me and taught me, as I began to really dig into the Bible thoughtfully and methodically, I realized that the only Biblical and logical conclusion was that Calvinism is true. If it's not, then the Gospel makes no sense.
 

eternomade

Well-known member
By this time, I had moved and started attending a church where the Gospel, the real Gospel and the whole Gospel was put right in front of me and I had no choice but to repent and receive Christ. And, as the men in that church discipled me and taught me, as I began to really dig into the Bible thoughtfully and methodically, I realized that the only Biblical and logical conclusion was that Calvinism is true. If it's not, then the Gospel makes no sense.
Amen. I believed in a false gospel up until 3.5 years ago when God granted me grace through faith. It's so hard to admit at first.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I had a friend in our church who was one of a handful of Calvinists in the church. He tried to explain it to me and I was completely baffled that anyone would believe it. I thought it made God seem capricious and cruel.

I was a new Christian and I had a lot of zeal, but no wisdom and absolutely zero discernment. I ended up getting involved with the WoF cult and, long story short, realized it was nonsense and that I was a false convert.

I wasn't saved, I was just a false convert, but I still loved going to church, mostly for the social aspect.

By this time, I had moved and started attending a church where the Gospel, the real Gospel and the whole Gospel was put right in front of me and I had no choice but to repent and receive Christ. And, as the men in that church discipled me and taught me, as I began to really dig into the Bible thoughtfully and methodically, I realized that the only Biblical and logical conclusion was that Calvinism is true. If it's not, then the Gospel makes no sense.
intersting that you think the gospel makes no sense outside of Calvinism.
The gospel is the Good News that we have a Savior.
You are saying that was not clear to you until you learned Calvinism?
 

civic

Well-known member
intersting that you think the gospel makes no sense outside of Calvinism.
The gospel is the Good News that we have a Savior.
You are saying that was not clear to you until you learned Calvinism?
Where does the Bible state the “ gospel “ is the good news we have a savior ?

chapter and verse please to back up you above claim err assumption?

You really should try and be more careful how you try and articulate Gods word and make sure your own ideas line up with scripture.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
intersting that you think the gospel makes no sense outside of Calvinism.
The gospel is the Good News that we have a Savior.
You are saying that was not clear to you until you learned Calvinism?

So God loves everyone, and will even save murderers like Moses and David, but if you make the wrong "decision" God (who "loves" you) will cause you to spend eternity in eternal hell?

That "makes sense" to you?
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
intersting that you think the gospel makes no sense outside of Calvinism.
The gospel is the Good News that we have a Savior.
You are saying that was not clear to you until you learned Calvinism?
Actually, the Bible says it's much more than that.

It encompasses Adam's fall, God's covenant with Israel to become a Messianic nation, God's provision of the law to Israel, man's inability to keep the law due to his total depravity, the adversarial relationship between God and man, God's provision of a savior in the person and work of Jesus Christ, repentance, the means of soteriology. the order of regeneration, etc.

Until I hear the Gospel preached from a Calvinist perspective, I just thought all that was involved was that I have to decide to accept Christ.

If I go up to somebody and say, "I'd like to share the Gospel with you. Good news! We have a savior!" I don't know about you, but it makes no sense to me to tell me I have a savior until you first explain to me what I have to be saved from.

It would be like your doctor never telling you you're sick, but then telling you, "We've found a cure!"
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Where does the Bible state the “ gospel “ is the good news we have a savior ?

chapter and verse please to back up you above claim err assumption?

You really should try and be more careful how you try and articulate Gods word and make sure your own ideas line up with scripture.
The Gospel is "good news" and we do have a savior, but if that's all he believes it is, then that's a very shallow understanding and leaves out several crucial steps.
 
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