Can a person have the Holy Spirit and not know it?

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
I personally don't think this is possible, since (being holy) the Holy Spirit would overwhelm our senses when He enters us.
Yes one can... When we get saved, we don't know much about a Holy Spirit, if anything.... As a born again person, we are all given a measure of the Holy Spirit... So, once again, yes, we may have the Holy Spirit and not know it...
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Yes one can... When we get saved, we don't know much about a Holy Spirit, if anything.... As a born again person, we are all given a measure of the Holy Spirit... So, once again, yes, we may have the Holy Spirit and not know it...
🤦‍♂️

Romans 8 (ESV)
5 For those who live according to the flesh have their outlook shaped by the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their outlook shaped by the things of the Spirit. 6 For the outlook of the flesh is death, but the outlook of the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the outlook of the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to the law of God, nor is it able to do so. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is your life because of righteousness. 11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.

How on earth can you NOT know wether or not you have been made alive.....
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
🤦‍♂️

Romans 8 (ESV)
5 For those who live according to the flesh have their outlook shaped by the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their outlook shaped by the things of the Spirit. 6 For the outlook of the flesh is death, but the outlook of the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the outlook of the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to the law of God, nor is it able to do so. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is your life because of righteousness. 11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.

How on earth can you NOT know wether or not you have been made alive.....

That is not the question... Most people are aware of "God" and "Jesus". The Holy Spirit is a person new believers are not aware of... Even if someone mentions the Holy Spirit to them, it takes a while for it to stick...
 

Manfred

Well-known member
That is not the question... Most people are aware of "God" and "Jesus". The Holy Spirit is a person new believers are not aware of... Even if someone mentions the Holy Spirit to them, it takes a while for it to stick...
Like Apollos? He heard half a gospel and believed, but did not receive the HS?
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Like Apollos? He heard half a gospel and believed, but did not receive the HS?
2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in[b] the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
I personally don't think this is possible, since (being holy) the Holy Spirit would overwhelm our senses when He enters us.
Romans 2 seems to argue that this is indeed the case. When the "...eyes of the Lord search to and fro throughout the whole earth to show himself strong on behalf of the one whose heart is perfect toward Him...", I begin to think the Spirit is talking to those who do not know the voice, but who respond to the voice with love and a willing heart.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
Yes one can... When we get saved, we don't know much about a Holy Spirit, if anything.... As a born again person, we are all given a measure of the Holy Spirit... So, once again, yes, we may have the Holy Spirit and not know it...
Totally agree. As a child being raised in a traditional, mainline protestant church, I can point to moments where I heard the voice of the Holy Spirit long before I knew that there was one. He had been calling me and teaching me long before I recognized Him. I can relate a couple instances that were unforgettably real. They are a part of my testimony.
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Totally agree. As a child being raised in a traditional, mainline protestant church, I can point to moments where I heard the voice of the Holy Spirit long before I knew that there was one. He had been calling me and teaching me long before I recognized Him. I can relate a couple instances that were unforgettably real. They are a part of my testimony.
I went about 6 years before I had an understanding about the Holy Spirit.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
To know Him was Paul’s goal, and I can’t even claim I’ve begun to grasp what that entails. Thanks for this comment.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in[b] the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
So hearing an incomplete gospel saves?

If you share the Ho;y Spirit in the preaching then surely you know about the HS immediately.

Getting to know God takes our whole lives, but knowing the Spirit and starting to walk in the Spirit is instantaneous. If you are talking abour prior to re-birth, then that is another story.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
So hearing an incomplete gospel saves?
Hearing an incomplete gospel plants. Faith alone saves. We're responsible for what we hear, not for what we don't hear. Apollos' incomplete gospel resulted in twelve disciples in Ephesus whose incomplete hearing was completed by Paul. But Luke still calls them disciples.

If the cessationist teacher plants a desire to know the Bible in a disciple, that disciple will be equipped to complete the inconsistent and erroneous teachings of the cessationist. Remember, God promised to become our teacher. If you need scripture, I can back this statement up.
If you share the Ho;y Spirit in the preaching then surely you know about the HS immediately.
Some teaching actually denies the Holy Spirit, and claims that His Promise is not for today. The hearer has to go further than what that teacher is offering. Knowing about the Holy Spirit cannot be the same as knowing Him, when you've been taught that He won't do as He promised because God's compassion that Jesus demonstrated freely is not for today.
Getting to know God takes our whole lives, but knowing the Spirit and starting to walk in the Spirit is instantaneous. If you are talking about prior to re-birth, then that is another story.
Beginning to know the Spirit is beginning to know God. I have students who claim they know me, because they were in my class in a tumultuous year decades ago...They do not know me. This is the nature of relationship.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
I personally don't think this is possible, since (being holy) the Holy Spirit would overwhelm our senses when He enters us.
I'd tend to agree. When you're Born again, and EVERYTHING CHANGES - that's pretty hard to miss. The BAptist CHurch was careful to WARN everybody who became a Christian under their ministry the WATCH OUT - for the enemy, who'd be along shortly to tell you it was all phony and nothing actually happened at all. The enemy can be VERY persuasive. I learned early to rub his filthy nose in the fact that I KNEW how things were, and how they had changed.
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
So hearing an incomplete gospel saves?

If you share the Ho;y Spirit in the preaching then surely you know about the HS immediately.

Getting to know God takes our whole lives, but knowing the Spirit and starting to walk in the Spirit is instantaneous. If you are talking abour prior to re-birth, then that is another story.
So, could you tell me what the Gospel is? I think you are adding to it... Which is dangerous...
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Hearing an incomplete gospel plants. Faith alone saves. We're responsible for what we hear, not for what we don't hear. Apollos' incomplete gospel resulted in twelve disciples in Ephesus whose incomplete hearing was completed by Paul. But Luke still calls them disciples.
So we are responsible for our our own salvation?
If the cessationist teacher plants a desire to know the Bible in a disciple, that disciple will be equipped to complete the inconsistent and erroneous teachings of the cessationist. Remember, God promised to become our teacher. If you need scripture, I can back this statement up.
Now you are sort of contradicting yourself with what you wrote above.
Some teaching actually denies the Holy Spirit, and claims that His Promise is not for today. The hearer has to go further than what that teacher is offering.
Again, God promised to be our teacher as you said. How must you go further if God is teaching. Why is God not teaching the cessationist that He has not stopped working in all believers?
Knowing about the Holy Spirit cannot be the same as knowing Him, when you've been taught that He won't do as He promised because God's compassion that Jesus demonstrated freely is not for today.
But Apollos did not know about the Holy Spirit. When he was told about the Holy Spirit he received him and then he (Apollos) got to know Him
Beginning to know the Spirit is beginning to know God. I have students who claim they know me, because they were in my class in a tumultuous year decades ago...They do not know me. This is the nature of relationship.
God is Trinity.

When you are born again, it is Spiritual and Jesus Christ is revealed as Lord and Savior by the Spirit of God.
So the one sharing the gospel, has the responsibility of including the work of the Holy Spirit in the gospel message or will God teach the convert anyway...
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
So we are responsible for our our own salvation?
I'm trying to look where I said that...We are responsible for our faith, which, in real value, is the only offering we can offer to God that is ours to give. That's why our faith is more precious than gold to God. He is faithful to keep His Word: Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. God will see to it that the seed is watered: He supplies seed to the sower, and bread for the eater...He alone is author and finisher of our faith.
Now you are sort of contradicting yourself with what you wrote above.
Not really...above I said any part of the word is a seed planted. "Hearing an incomplete gospel plants [a seed]." Faith does come by hearing. When that seed is nourished and watered, life is the result. Salvation is verb with three tenses: I'm saved. I'm being saved. I shall be saved.
Again, God promised to be our teacher as you said. How must you go further if God is teaching. Why is God not teaching the cessationist that He has not stopped working in all believers?
Who says He isn't? We run into trouble trying to teach the cessationist before it is time. On the other hand, you have doctors like John MacArthur who sow confusion into the body with their hermeneutics of anecdotal evidence and "historic principle" (if it hasn't happened for a thousand years, you can't expect it to happen...), and they will need to answer for themselves.

One of the greatest encounters God privileged me to have was with a self-assessed cessationist doctor from Columbia International University...he was to interview me for a position at a fundamentalist boarding school. During that interview, he read my mail so many times he was clearly Spirit charged and Spirit led. I didn't have to convince him that the Word of Knowledge and the Word of Wisdom are for today...his words were manifestly His words for me, and I learned again to eschew judgment.
But Apollos did not know about the Holy Spirit. When he was told about the Holy Spirit he received him and then he (Apollos) got to know Him.
Correct. This is an important principle. Was Apollos less "Christian" for his lack of knowledge? Deprived in any way? The answer to the first question is obviously not. He was able to make disciples quite adequately. To the second question...a soldier deprived of his weapons is still a soldier. The weapons increase his effectiveness.

God is Trinity.

When you are born again, it is Spiritual and Jesus Christ is revealed as Lord and Savior by the Spirit of God.
So the one sharing the gospel, has the responsibility of including the work of the Holy Spirit in the gospel message or will God teach the convert anyway...
The one sharing is only responsible for what he knows. He's not responsible for what he does not know. God is the ultimate teacher, and the disciple is never left ignorant for long. Paul wrote to the Corinthians to eliminate their ignorance ("I do not want you to be ignorant..."), not to get them saved. Paul planted. Apollos, after being better instructed by Priscilla and Aquilla, went to Corinth and watered what Paul had planted, but you can bet the Corinthians also watered, with their Charismatic experience, what Priscilla and Aquilla had planted in Apollos. Do you see that?
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
What do you think I am adding?

Christ crucified and resurrected.
Being Born Again, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Here is the Gospel summarized by Paul:

15 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Of course we are sealed with the Holy Spirit... But that is not the Gospel... What you are adding is not dangerous... But what you did do was imply that someone who has not heard of the Holy Spirit is not saved... I know when I was saved. But I did not have an understanding of the Holy Spirit. So when I did come alive to Christ, I felt the release from guilt. I felt a joy. It took studying scripture and praying to know and understand who the Holy Spirit is...
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
That is not the question... Most people are aware of "God" and "Jesus". The Holy Spirit is a person new believers are not aware of... Even if someone mentions the Holy Spirit to them, it takes a while for it to stick...
When I received the Holy Spirit is was an EXPERIENCE. There is no way NOT to know. Some only believe in Him theologically, but have never been baptized in the Holy Spirit; they only think they have Him inside. It was quite a shock to me to realize that for 30 years of going to church, I wasn't even born again - until I was. Life changed drastically.
 
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