Can God Change His Mind?

[SteveB]

You, Steve, really should answer this:



Why are you giving me examples of God changing His mind?

I already know that God is capable of and HAS, on occasion, changed His mind!


In fact, I have already provided you with a perfect example of God changing His mind

According to Exodus, when Moses came down from the mountain with the Ten Commandments and saw that the people had fallen into sin {worshipping a golden calf and whatnot} - God told Moses that He was going to destroy the nation

Moses then pleaded on behalf of the people...
Exodus 32:14
"And the Lord changed His mind about the disaster that He planned to bring on His people"


Do you understand what this means, Steve?

It means that God changed His mind and extended the 'deadline' that He had previously set for these people - granting them additional and further opportunity to change their ways and come to Him


So, the question is, why doesn't God do the same for all of us when we die and grant us that one final moment, as we stand before Him, in which to turn from our ways and come to Him?

Do you understand, Steve, that this is the EXACT SAME THING?

In both instances, we are talking about people who have missed the deadline and are slated to be destroyed
{the Jews who were with Moses}
AND
{non-Christians who die and find themselves standing before God}

In the former instance, God changed His mind and granted those people an additional chance and further opportunity to change their ways and come to Him

In the latter instance, God refuses to change His mind and grant these people an additional chance and further opportunity to change their ways and come to Him

WHY?

Why doesn't God give us that one extra second when we are standing before Him, having died, and finally knowing for absolute certain that He is, in fact, real?"

He did it in the past - so why not today?
He did it for some - so why not for all?

WELL, according to you...
God will not / cannot change His mind and give us the opportunity, in the moment immediately following our death, of changing our minds about Him because to do so would make Him less a god and more like a lying man!

Are you now changing your mind, Steve?
Are you now admitting that you were wrong?
I hope so - because scripture itself testifies to you being wrong!

Assuming that you are man enough to admit when you are wrong, what now do you propose as the reason for why God doesn't give us that one extra second when we are standing before Him, having died, and finally knowing for absolute certain that He is, in fact, real?

Why?
Are you really unable to read what has been previously stated?

 

[treeplanter]

Why?
Are you really unable to read what has been previously stated?

I have read and fully understand everything you have said, Steve

You said that God will not / cannot extend His deadline and give us additional time to change our ways and come to Him

You said that the reason that God will not /cannot extend His deadline and give us additional time to change our ways and come to Him is because it would make Him a liar and less of a god

However, according to scripture, God changed His mind {Exodus 32:14} and gave to the people of Moses additional time to change their ways and come to Him

Scripture, itself, proves you wrong, Steve!

God IS capable of changing His mind and giving us additional time
God HAS, in the past, changed His mind and given us additional time

YOU KNOW NOTHING
YOU ARE A FRAUD!!

 

[Tiburon]

“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?


two classic examples of where God will change his mind.

Ezekiel 18 :: New King James Version (NKJV)

Ezekiel 18 - The word of the LORD came to me again, saying,

www.blueletterbible.org

Ezekiel 33 :: New King James Version (NKJV)

Ezekiel 33 - Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

www.blueletterbible.org

I don't see that these are examples of God changing his mind.
He doesn't suddenly reward bad behaviour or punish the good.
Isn't God all knowing? Why would he need to change his mind?

 

[Whateverman]

If your friend Jim understood all the evidence for the earth being 5 billion years old but continued to believe in a 6,000 year old earth, then he was being irrational. Jim may be a nice guy but I don't think God is looking to fill heaven with people who are irrational in what they chose to believe which is why I think fundamentalists are further from God than many a-theists. A-theists in general are open to evidence or reason for God whereas fundamentalists attached themselves to myths and never went any further. Their minds are closed.

Jim was more hopeful than irrational - but he clearly was dancing on that line between the two.

He gave me a bible when I left that company; called me a seeker. I wasn't at all offended by this, and truth be told, it was more touching than anything else. But yeah, he was a smart guy who viewed the paradox as a sign that there was more to be discovered. Give people enough motivation, and they'll believe they're safe right up to the point the bus runs them over...

 

[docphin5]

Jim was more hopeful than irrational - but he clearly was dancing on that line between the two.

He gave me a bible when I left that company; called me a seeker. I wasn't at all offended by this, and truth be told, it was more touching than anything else. But yeah, he was a smart guy who viewed the paradox as a sign that there was more to be discovered.

I am all for more discovery. But at some point when enough evidence comes in, one needs to choose the better answer. If someone could prove that God does not exist by reason or by evidence then I would admit defeat and accept my fate. But the more I discover about our world the more real God becomes to me. Maybe that is just me. ha ha!

Give people enough motivation, and they'll believe they're safe right up to the point the bus runs them over...

Sad but true.

 

[SteveB]

I have read and fully understand everything you have said, Steve

You said that God will not / cannot extend His deadline and give us additional time to change our ways and come to Him

You said that the reason that God will not /cannot extend His deadline and give us additional time to change our ways and come to Him is because it would make Him a liar and less of a god

However, according to scripture, God changed His mind {Exodus 32:14} and gave to the people of Moses additional time to change their ways and come to Him

Scripture, itself, proves you wrong, Steve!

God IS capable of changing His mind and giving us additional time
God HAS, in the past, changed His mind and given us additional time

YOU KNOW NOTHING
YOU ARE A FRAUD!!

And yet here you are trying to justify yourself, and blame God for your own sin.

 

[Whateverman]

I am all for more discovery. But at some point when enough evidence comes in, one needs to choose the better answer.

You're preaching to the choir on that one

If someone could prove that God does not exist by reason or by evidence then I would admit defeat and accept my fate. But the more I discover about our world the more real God becomes to me. Maybe that is just me. ha ha!

Same in reverse. I would actually LOVE to find out there's some divine parental unit who wants certain things from me, and that there's some sort of larger plan for my life and humanity in general. Give me the evidence, because I want to believe those things, and I'll happily convert to the appropriate religion when I find it.

 

[docphin5]

You're preaching to the choir on that one


Same in reverse. I would actually LOVE to find out there's some divine parental unit who wants certain things from me, and that there's some sort of larger plan for my life and humanity in general. Give me the evidence, because I want to believe those things, and I'll happily convert to the appropriate religion when I find it.

That is why I hang in the a-theist forums because I am more like you than I am like a fundamentalist. I want a faith that I can believe in. I think I found one, hope you will too someday.

 

[treeplanter]

And yet here you are trying to justify yourself, and blame God for your own sin.

No, Steve - I am here trying to help you see the error of your ways
{I would have said "the error in your thinking", but you have already made clear that you gave thinking up when you became a Christian}

Pay close attention, Steve:

You said that God will not / cannot change His mind for the benefit of man because to do so would make Him less a god and more a lying man like yourself

However, scripture says that God HAS, in the past, changed His mind for the benefit of man!
Exodus 32:1-14

So clearly, and this is according to the bible, itself - God IS fully capable of changing His mind for the benefit of man

And this leads us right back to the original question:

Why doesn't God change His mind for our benefit and give us a last chance and one final opportunity to turn to Him when we have died and find ourselves standing before Him?

 

[SteveB]

No, Steve - I am here trying to help you see the error of your ways
{I would have said "the error in your thinking", but you have already made clear that you gave thinking up when you became a Christian}

Pay close attention, Steve:

You said that God will not / cannot change His mind for the benefit of man because to do so would make Him less a god and more a lying man like yourself

However, scripture says that God HAS, in the past, changed His mind for the benefit of man!
Exodus 32:1-14

So clearly, and this is according to the bible, itself - God IS fully capable of changing His mind for the benefit of man

And this leads us right back to the original question:

Why doesn't God change His mind for our benefit and give us a last chance and one final opportunity to turn to Him when we have died and find ourselves standing before Him?

But you don't.
You rage on and on about how right you are, and how criminal God, and his followers are.
So..... that sounds like justifying yourself, and blaming God to me.

 

[Whatsisface]

But you don't.
You rage on and on about how right you are, and how criminal God, and his followers are.
So..... that sounds like justifying yourself, and blaming God to me.

You forgot to say why TP was wrong.

 

[J regia]

You forgot to say why TP was wrong.

Presumably it's for commercial reasons since it would put all the churches selling after-death salvation packages out of business.

 

[treeplanter]

But you don't.
You rage on and on about how right you are, and how criminal God, and his followers are.
So..... that sounds like justifying yourself, and blaming God to me.

Yes, God IS criminal
His followers, though, are not criminal
They are victims

You are a victim, Steve, and I realize that I should try harder to keep that in mind when dealing with you...

That said, it's hard to maintain sympathy for one who consistently refuses to acknowledge what has been established while, at the same time, constantly mischaracterizing and misrepresenting others

 

[SteveB]

Yes, God IS criminal
His followers, though, are not criminal
They are victims

You are a victim, Steve, and I realize that I should try harder to keep that in mind when dealing with you...

That said, it's hard to maintain sympathy for one who consistently refuses to acknowledge what has been established while, at the same time, constantly mischaracterizing and misrepresenting others

there you go.
You're always right, and everyone who places their trust in Jesus, by virtue of that trust, are always wrong.
So, I'm right about what I said above.

Can God Change His Mind?

You, Steve, really should answer this: Why are you giving me examples of God changing His mind? I already know that God is capable of and HAS, on occasion, changed His mind! In fact, I have already provided you with a perfect example of God changing His mind According to Exodus, when...

forums.carm.org

You're always seeking to justify yourself and blame God.

 

[treeplanter]

there you go.
You're always right, and everyone who places their trust in Jesus, by virtue of that trust, are always wrong.
So, I'm right about what I said above.

Can God Change His Mind?

You, Steve, really should answer this: Why are you giving me examples of God changing His mind? I already know that God is capable of and HAS, on occasion, changed His mind! In fact, I have already provided you with a perfect example of God changing His mind According to Exodus, when...

forums.carm.org

You're always seeking to justify yourself and blame God.

No, Steve - I am not always right!

How do you arrive at "Treeplanter is always right" simply because "Steve is wrong about God being unwilling / incapable of changing His mind"?

Focus on the issue at hand, Steve:

You said that God will not / cannot change His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him because to do so would make Him less a god and more a lying man like yourself

However, scripture says that God HAS, in the past, changed His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him!
{Exodus 32:1-14}

So clearly, and this is according to the bible, itself - God IS fully capable of changing His mind for the benefit of man!!

Obviously, you are wrong, Steve
Does this mean, though, that I am always right?
No - of course not!


And this leads us right back to the original question:

Why doesn't God change His mind for our benefit and give us a last chance and one final opportunity to turn to Him when we have died and find ourselves standing before Him?

Have you an answer, Steve?

 

[SteveB]

No, Steve - I am not always right!

How do you arrive at "Treeplanter is always right" simply because "Steve is wrong about God being unwilling / incapable of changing His mind"?

Focus on the issue at hand, Steve:

You said that God will not / cannot change His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him because to do so would make Him less a god and more a lying man like yourself

However, scripture says that God HAS, in the past, changed His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him!
{Exodus 32:1-14}

So clearly, and this is according to the bible, itself - God IS fully capable of changing His mind for the benefit of man!!

Obviously, you are wrong, Steve
Does this mean, though, that I am always right?
No - of course not!


And this leads us right back to the original question:

Why doesn't God change His mind for our benefit and give us a last chance and one final opportunity to turn to Him when we have died and find ourselves standing before Him?

Have you an answer, Steve?

obviously believe you are.
Otherwise you'd take a completely different tact in conversing, and recognize that the world is not as you see it.
But..... you never stop.
and when called about it, you respond with the requisite-- well, I admit I could be wrong, now prove it-- reaction, and then continue on with your rants.

You really need help. And it's not help anyone but you, and God can facilitate. But you won't come to God, so he can help you, because you believe God is a criminal. Thus, you leave yourself without any help, and that helplessness has filled you with rage and bitterness, which is poisoning you, while you believe you're poisoning God.

 

[treeplanter]

obviously believe you are.
Otherwise you'd take a completely different tact in conversing, and recognize that the world is not as you see it.
But..... you never stop.
and when called about it, you respond with the requisite-- well, I admit I could be wrong, now prove it-- reaction, and then continue on with your rants.

You really need help. And it's not help anyone but you, and God can facilitate. But you won't come to God, so he can help you, because you believe God is a criminal. Thus, you leave yourself without any help, and that helplessness has filled you with rage and bitterness, which is poisoning you, while you believe you're poisoning God.

Your mind has been polluted and corrupted, Steve - so I forgive you
You know not what you say...


The 'tact' that I have taken is an appeal to reason and logic

You said that God will not / cannot change His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him because to do so would make Him less a god and more a lying man like yourself

However, scripture says that God HAS, in the past, changed His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him
{Exodus 32:1-14}

So clearly, and this is according to the bible, itself - God IS fully capable of changing His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him, Steve!


Were it that reason and logic resonated with you in any way, shape, or form - you would recognize that you are wrong
Were it that integrity and honesty were of any importance to you - you would acknowledge your mistake

Were it that you truly gave a damn about advancing the kingdom of God and leading souls to Christ - you would explain why it is that God chooses not to extend His deadline and grant us an extra chance and final opportunity to come to Him in the moment{s} after our death


Seriously, Steve - instead of telling me that I am full of rage and bitterness due my conceptualization of God as a criminal - you could be using this time to prove to me that I am wrong about God...

Might I suggest that you start by explaining how and why God chooses not to extend His deadline and grant us an extra chance and final opportunity to come to Him even though He has in the past and easily could once again?

 

[SteveB]

Your mind has been polluted and corrupted, Steve - so I forgive you
You know not what you say...


The 'tact' that I have taken is an appeal to reason and logic

You said that God will not / cannot change His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him because to do so would make Him less a god and more a lying man like yourself

However, scripture says that God HAS, in the past, changed His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him
{Exodus 32:1-14}

So clearly, and this is according to the bible, itself - God IS fully capable of changing His mind for the benefit of man coming to Him, Steve!


Were it that reason and logic resonated with you in any way, shape, or form - you would recognize that you are wrong
Were it that integrity and honesty were of any importance to you - you would acknowledge your mistake

Were it that you truly gave a damn about advancing the kingdom of God and leading souls to Christ - you would explain why it is that God chooses not to extend His deadline and grant us an extra chance and final opportunity to come to Him in the moment{s} after our death


Seriously, Steve - instead of telling me that I am full of rage and bitterness due my conceptualization of God as a criminal - you could be using this time to prove to me that I am wrong about God...

Might I suggest that you start by explaining how and why God chooses not to extend His deadline and grant us an extra chance and final opportunity to come to Him even though He has in the past and easily could once again?

that would indeed make it easier for you to run and hide. but I realized that's not what you want.

I think what Nouveau described actually applies to you.

Hypothetical Discussion with a Narcissist

Here's a comparison so you can tell the difference between a narcissist and a regular person. Normal case: S: I noticed you were among those who never bothered answering my question about the fence. N: Then you noticed wrongly. I directly answered your question. Should I post a link? S: Why...

forums.carm.org

Hypothetical Discussion with a Narcissist

And this is exactly what you're doing. Obviously false. The mistake was yours. You are the only one refusing to acknowledge it or apologize for it.

forums.carm.org

 

[Nouveau]

I think what Nouveau described actually applies to you.

Lol, look at Steve thrash around desperately trying to project NPD onto everyone but himself.

 

[Beloved]

WOW keep trying to spread hate against God and again any Christians.
I'm sure you will try to twist Jeremiah 18.


God was going to judge Nineveh. However, Nineveh repented and changed its ways. As a result, God, in His holiness, had mercy on Nineveh and spared them.

Jeremiah 18:7–11
English Standard Version

7. If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it.

9. And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,

10. and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.

11. Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: ‘Thus says the Lord, Behold, I am shaping disaster against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your deeds.’