Can God Know Future Freewill Choices?

Sketo

Well-known member

Sketo

Well-known member
The question is, dies God's knowledge need grounding.

I am not sure we could prove it does, given his power doesn't need grounding.

My point is, like his power is not grounded in something other than God…

His knowledge is also not Grounded in something other than God.

Some believe Gods knowledge is grounded in something external to God namely creation. This is the point of the phrase “God is outside of time”.

It creates a logical problem because it assumes an external source is necessary as the grounds of Gods knowing.

The logical problem arises in the time before (the timeline of creation) is created.

Gods knowledge is grounded in God alone.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
My point is, like his power is not grounded in something other than God…

His knowledge is also not Grounded in something other than God.

Some believe Gods knowledge is grounded in something external to God namely creation. This is the point of the phrase “God is outside of time”.

It creates a logical problem because it assumes an external source is necessary as the grounds of Gods knowing.

The logical problem arises in the time before (the timeline of creation) is created.

Gods knowledge is grounded in God alone.
Wouldn't this only apply if they invoke "looks down the corridors of time" explanation?

What if they just say "he just knows" because he is God?
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Wouldn't this only apply if they invoke "looks down the corridors of time" explanation?

What if they just say "he just knows" because he is God?

If that’s the case what would be the point of the phrase “God is outside of time”? It’s an unnecessary point if they simply mean God knows independent of the thing they are referencing…

…And saying “he just knows because he is God”, without any explanation, supports the Calvinistic view that God knows because he determined within himself before creating anything.

 

fltom

Well-known member
If that’s the case what would be the point of the phrase “God is outside of time”? It’s an unnecessary point if they simply mean God knows independent of the thing they are referencing…

…And saying “he just knows because he is God”, without any explanation, supports the Calvinistic view that God knows because he determined within himself before creating anything.

Sorry that claim is based upon the false idea finite man is capable of explaining an infinite God

To do so you are dragging God down to man's level
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
If that’s the case what would be the point of the phrase “God is outside of time”? It’s an unnecessary point if they simply mean God knows independent of the thing they are referencing…

…And saying “he just knows because he is God”, without any explanation, supports the Calvinistic view that God knows because he determined within himself before creating anything.

I don't follow the logic of that last part.

Just saying He knows because he is God doesn't necessarily imply calvinism.

Some of them say He knows just because He is God, and He didn't determine it.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
I don't follow the logic of that last part.

Just saying He knows because he is God doesn't necessarily imply calvinism.

It also doesn’t exclude Calvinism which is exactly my point. If they do not justify How then anyone, including Calvinism, can claim “God knows because He is God”…

Some of them say He knows just because He is God, and He didn't determine it.

…now you add “He didn’t determine it” which is an additional new claim that must be justified.

We both agree on the first part, and we can both justify it. We disagree on the additional claim so the burden of proof is on the one who made the additional claim.


 
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fltom

Well-known member
It also doesn’t exclude Calvinism which is exactly my point. If they do not justify How then anyone, including Calvinism, can claim “God knows because He is God”…



…now you add “He didn’t determine it” which is an additional new claim that must be justified.

We both agree on the first part, and we can both justify it. We disagree on the additional claim so the burden of proof is on the one who made the additional claim.

The additional claim is Calvinism's claim God determined all things
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
It also doesn’t exclude Calvinism which is exactly my point. If they do not justify How then anyone, including Calvinism, can claim “God knows because He is God”…



…now you add “He didn’t determine it” which is an additional new claim that must be justified.

We both agree on the first part, and we can both justify it. We disagree on the additional claim so the burden of proof is on the one who made the additional claim.


Well sure they need to support that. I am just saying they can avoid the logical issue that. Now it's a scriptural issue.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
The additional claim is Calvinism's claim God determined all things

The context is Gods knowledge of “all things” therefore you are claiming something other than God determined Gods knowledge of “some things”.

By definition this means God knows “all things” because he is God plus an external determiner!

Justify your additional claim please.

God knows all things because he is God alone… is the Calvinist claim.

 

fltom

Well-known member
The context is Gods knowledge of “all things” therefore you are claiming something other than God determined “some things”. This is your unjustified claim.

Justify your additional claim please.

God knows all things because he is God alone… is the Calvinist claim.

Um the bible tells us God knows all things it denies God determines all things
 
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