Can God Know Future Freewill Choices?

Sketo

Well-known member
Nothing is possible without God, not us, not the idea of our libertarian free choices. I don't understand what you are asking with the more things.

Who said anything about “the idea of”? The point of contention is “libertarian free choices”…

Libertarian free” = Without God

Therefore “our liberation free choice” is a direct contradiction to “Nothing is possible without God”.

“Libertarian free choice” = Not possible.



🤔So you believe all things are possible with God… but without God… more things are possible?

And this makes sense to you?🤷🏻‍♂️

How does less God = more things?

Justify your logic please.
 
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Sketo

Well-known member
Libertarian choice is not choosing outside of God if that's what you're saying. God foreknows all things.

You know that is not what I’m saying… “foreknowledge is not causal” remember…

Libertarian choice” = Without God choice

And you affirm “Nothing is possible without God”!

Of course you believe God knows all things, but by definition you claim part of Gods knowledge is not determined by God alone.

Your burden of proof.

Justify your claim please.

Calvinist Claim is that God alone determined his own knowledge… no addition required.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
Who said anything about “the idea of”? The point of contention is “libertarian free choices”…

Libertarian free” = Without God

Therefore “our liberation free choice” is a direct contradiction to “Nothing is possible without God”.

“Libertarian free choice” = Not possible.

God created libertarian free choice. Yes it is God's idea. Other than God has it too as part of His nature. So ...

Libertarian free choice = Possible because God created it.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
God created libertarian free choice. Yes it is God's idea.

Justify your assumptions please.

Other than God has it too as part of His nature. So ...

God choice is not “without God”… the difference is your unjustified claim is that man’s choice is possible without God.

Nothing is possible “without God”.

Libertarian free choice = Possible because God created it.

““Without God” choice = God created “Without God” choice.”

This is an illogical statement.

Justify your logic please.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
Justify your assumptions please.

Why don't you justify your view that God had no other choice but to predetermine us. Something outside of God perhaps? ... like you like to accuse? You make creation the pantheistic face of God.

God choice is not “without God”

Correct.

… the difference is your unjustified claim is that man’s choice is possible without God.

No. Man's libertarian choice is God's idea and creation and upholding.

Nothing is possible “without God”.

Correct.

““Without God” choice = God created “Without God” choice.”

This is an illogical statement.

Correct.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Why don't you justify your view that God had no other choice but to predetermine us.

That is exactly what I have been doing
You have already agreed to the fact that “nothing is possible without God”.

Are you back to assuming “something is possible without God”?

Something outside of God perhaps? ... like you like to accuse?

No… That is your unjustified assumption not mine.

Just curious, do you believe that your heart can beat again without God predetermining it to beat again?

 

His clay

Well-known member
Why don't you justify your view that God had no other choice but to predetermine us. Something outside of God perhaps? ... like you like to accuse? You make creation the pantheistic face of God.



Correct.



No. Man's libertarian choice is God's idea and creation and upholding.



Correct.



Correct.
I'll be responding to the following sentence. "Man's libertarian choice is God's idea and creation and upholding."
Libertarian choice is autonomous from God; hence, it is free/independent from God. But here you are saying that God is upholding something that is independent of Him. This is a direct contradiction. The very definition of libertarian choice denies Divine causality, but upholding affirms it.

Also, as Sketo has stated repeatedly, your unjustified assumption is the quoted sentence in blue. Is there a verse that communicates that God's idea was to create and uphold libertarian choice?
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
That is exactly what I have been doing
You have already agreed to the fact that “nothing is possible without God”.

Are you back to assuming “something is possible without God”?

There is no outside of God's Omni attribute reach to libertarian choice since God doesn't deem it so. ... But it is outside of God in as far as being a creation and thus is itself not God as we are not God. ... Otherwise even though flesh is not God we would still be the face of pantheism.
If God has no other choice than to give us no other choice as you assert then that is pantheism with feet.

No… That is your unjustified assumption not mine.

Just curious, do you believe that your heart can beat again without God predetermining it to beat again?

No. But then it would have been God's libertarian choice.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
I'll be responding to the following sentence. "Man's libertarian choice is God's idea and creation and upholding."
Libertarian choice is autonomous from God; hence, it is free/independent from God. But here you are saying that God is upholding something that is independent of Him. This is a direct contradiction. The very definition of libertarian choice denies Divine causality, but upholding affirms it.

Also, as Sketo has stated repeatedly, your unjustified assumption is the quoted sentence in blue. Is there a verse that communicates that God's idea was to create and uphold libertarian choice?

Libertarian choices originate in God's creation by design like a car created by a man is not divine, not in a supposed force outside God that was not created; but the existence of cars, libertarian choices and all creation is divinely upheld by God.
 
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