Can God Know Future Freewill Choices?

Sketo

Well-known member
No. You set a limit on what God knows.

There are positive limits to God because he is God… you are assuming a negative limit.

Can you cease to exist… Yes! Negative limit.
Can God cease to exist… No! Positive limit.

Can God create a rock so big that he can not lift it? No! Positive limit.

Can God create another non created God like himself? No! Positive limit.

I would recommend these timestamps to understand the positive limit of Gods knowing…

00:01:38 Establishing What God Can, And Can Not Logically Know
01:17:00 What Can Logically Be Known?
01:30:50 God Can Only Know What Can Logically Be Known (“If God Can Know”)

01:33:54 Is Gods Knowledge “Generated/Caused/Determined” By God Or Not
01:41:32 Can God “Look Out” At, And Know About, Things He Does Not Create/Uphold/Sustain
01:43:38 The Ground Of How “Prophesying/Predict” The Future?



00:00:00 Intro

00:01:38 Establishing What God Can, And Can Not Logically Know
00:02:26 Properly Defining Freewill
00:04:05 Foundational Verses (Properties of God, Freedom from God, Semi-Deistic Dualism)
00:08:16 Defining Open Theism And Comparing It To General Freewill

00:12:57 Grounding Objection Explained (Logical Order)
00:15:20 Gods Foreknowledge Is Gods Perfect Knowledge Of His Own Actions
00:18:13 ⭐️The Most Ridiculous Argument From The Freewill Side = Semi-Deistic Dualism

00:20:36 Grounding Objection Applied To Calvinism (With Practical Water Bottle Example)
00:22:24 Grounding Objection Applied to Molinism (Directly Refutes “Middle Knowledge”)

00:23:35 If God Stops Exerting Power Over You… You Cease To Exist
00:27:42 Freewill Reverses The Logical Order Of God’s Omnipotence And Knowledge
00:29:19 The Foundational Verses “Brutally” Refute Open Theism
00:31:02 Difference Between Calvinism, Provisionism, And Open Theism
00:32:57 Non-Foundational Verses Can Not Prove Freewill (Freewill Challenge)

00:35:24 Refuting The Claim That Calvinism “Limits” God (Positive And Negative Limitations)
00:39:16 Examining Which System Has God “Learning” Or “Gaining” Knowledge (2 Options)
00:43:12 Psalm 139:16 Establishes God As Devine Author
00:44:50 Who Has The “Hidden” Unjustified Assumption?

00:48:07 Establishing The Omni-Attributes Of God (Hebrews 1:3, Acts 17:28, Colossians 1:17)
00:51:50 Omniscience Examined (Who/What Determined Gods Knowledge)
00:55:31 Asking “How God Knows” Is Essentially The Death Nail To Freewill
00:58:49 Omnipotence Properly Defined And Understood
01:04:26 Omnipotence Is Referring To Extent Not Degree
01:07:26 Omnipotence Rock Example
01:08:32 Properly Explaining Miracles
01:10:13 Properly Defining Evil/Sin

01:14:29 Examining Counterfactuals In Molinist “Middle Knowledge”
01:17:00 God Can Only Know What Can Logically Be Known
01:19:41 Which God Is “Greater” (God That Determined Or Learned)
01:22:11 Does God “Gain” His Omniscience/Omnipotence Addressed

01:24:44 “It’s Not If God Knows It’s How God Knows” And Calvinists Justify How (See Above)
01:28:50 Key Word That Leighton Uses So He doesn’t Have To Justify His Claims
01:30:50 God Can Only Know What Can Logically Be Known (“If God Can Know”)
01:33:54 Is Gods Knowledge “Generated/Caused/Determined” By God Or Not
01:41:32 Can God “Look Out” At, And Know About, Things He Does Not Create/Uphold/Sustain
01:43:38 The Ground Of How “Prophesying/Predict” The Future?

01:46:41 “If God Causes All Things, Why Does He Need Satan?” Answered (Means Matter)
01:49:50 Understanding “Means” Tree Example

01:51:40 (Example Pharaoh) Freewill Cornered
01:52:51 (Example Thanking God For Food, Clothes, Air, Life) Freewill Cornered

01:54:04 God Foreknowledge Of If/Then Statements Properly Understood (Counterfactuals)
01:58:23 Addressing “Responsibility” (Adam In Garden Example)
02:00:28 Addressing Fatalistic Assumptions (Do your Forum Posts Matter?)
02:02:54 Example; Do your “Forum Posts” Matter? (God Gives Means “Meaning”)

02:06:13 Addressing the phrase “There’s Nothing You Can Do” Addressed
02:07:21 Everything Has Meaning Because God Gives It Meaning Established

02:09:32 Calvinists Do Not “Limit” God (Molinism Refuted)
02:11:42 “Let’s Suppose Calvinism Is True” Ok Let’s…👈
02:12:56 “Middle Knowledge” Defined And Refuted (Logical Order Problem)
02:15:39 Hebrews 1:3 Brought In To Destroy “Middle Knowledge”
02:16:21 Counterfactuals Biblically Understood
02:17:02 “Let’s Just Suppose Freewill Is True” ZERO Justification👈 fltom
02:18:08 It’s Logically Impossible For A Calvinist To Also Be A Molinist
02:20:44 Jeremiah 19:5 Correctly Explained

02:25:13 Detailed Summary Of Episode
02:33:47 Conclusion
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
I agree… but the part we do know, of a valid mystery, does not include logical fallacies.

If the 1% we do know includes a logical fallacy… revealing the other 99% does not fix it. The fallacy would still remain in the 100%. It still has to be dealt with.



Where is the logical fallacy in the part we do know? If there is not one then you are comparing apples to oranges.

Is it possible for God to create another non created God like himself? No.

Can it be accepted by simply calling it a “mystery” or “miracle”? No.

Why, because it would be a logical fallacy, and no amount of new information revealed can change this. The other 99% would not include this fallacy.
Non created God like himself?

Not sure what you are referring to. Who says that?
 

fltom

Well-known member
If by “freewill” you mean something other than God is in Ultimate control of anything then…

Both are logically impossible. And calling them a miracle, or mystery, does not fix it.

But if by “freewill” you are referring to something other than God then this may be logical and biblical. Depends on your reference point.

Man’s will free in reference to God is unjustifiable and illogical.
How does that address what I asked

???

Is it possible for God to create another non created God like himself?

What has this contrary statement to do with God creating man with a limited free will

You have not proven it is impossible for God to create man with a limited free will which is filtered through the sovereignty of God

It appear you have just assumed this unbiblical theology which makes God the cause and author of all the sin that ever has been
 

Sketo

Well-known member
How does that address what I asked

???

Is it possible for God to create another non created God like himself?

What has this contrary statement to do with God creating man with a limited free will

You have not proven it is impossible for God to create man with a limited free will which is filtered through the sovereignty of God

It appear you have just assumed this unbiblical theology which makes God the cause and author of all the sin that ever has been


Do you believe Satan operates within your “limited freewill”?


 

fltom

Well-known member
If by “freewill” you mean something other than God is in Ultimate control of anything then…

Both are logically impossible. And calling them a miracle, or mystery, does not fix it.

But if by “freewill” you are referring to something other than God then this may be logical and biblical. Depends on your reference point.

Man’s will free in reference to God is unjustifiable and illogical.
So then you affirm man can have free will in respect to other men and within himself?
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
If by “freewill” you mean something other than God is in Ultimate control of anything then…

Both are logically impossible. And calling them a miracle, or mystery, does not fix it.

But if by “freewill” you are referring to something other than God then this may be logical and biblical. Depends on your reference point.

Man’s will free in reference to God is unjustifiable and illogical.

So we are dead?

Never to live never to be.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
So we are dead?

Never to live never to be.


Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being”

 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being”


Once again .....

So we are dead?
 
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