Can man believe in God without God making him?

Tercon

Well-known member
Can man believe in God without God making him?

or IOW

Can man have faith in God without God making it so?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
I would say man cannot believe in God without God helping him.

If doubt is a real temptation, God does not force us to believe.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I would say man cannot believe in God without God helping him.

But if belief is a gift of God and belief originated in and with God as the only means by which to know Him or He make Himself known to us, then God must have initiated our belief and faith in Him first. Our beginning in Him must have originated in and with Him. I have not problem in God making me believe when I can't.

If doubt is a real temptation, God does not force us to believe.

But doubt comes from unbelief and not belief, belief diminishes doubt.
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
the Holy Spirit overcomes Man's natural resistance
Salvation is completely God's doing, not Man's doing

Yes. And if God uses belief in order to make Himself known to us, then that belief must have originated in and with Him for it to be "God's doing".
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Yes. And if God uses belief in order to make Himself known to us, then that belief must have originated in and with Him for it to be "God's doing".
I think so

belief is the beginning of the relationship, trust is the relationship
that's basically how I view it
believers may still struggle with doubts tho

a Believer should have a desire to then learn and grow in Biblical knowledge and understanding
which should facilitate an increase in what they are trusting

that's why I don't see the Christian life as constant repentance, confession, penance, etc
we are already completely forgiven
it should be about getting to know more about our God
the history and prophecies of His revelation to us
and understanding the inheritance we have already been given in the Messiah
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
along with increasing Bible knowledge
we should enjoy fellowship with our family of Believers and help each other

and let's be honest
none of that is clean and easy
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Can man believe in God without God making him?

or IOW

Can man have faith in God without God making it so?

I don't know if that's the right question. All kinds of people believe in gods. Perhaps someone looked at the beauty of their surroundings and said, "look at what God made". But will that get a person saved?

The right question is.....Can man believe in Jesus and the gospel without God the Father making them?
 

Bocco

Active member
Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant that the LORD commanded Moses to make with the people of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant that he had made with them at Horeb. 2 And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “You have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, 3 the great trials that your eyes saw, the signs, and those great wonders. 4 But to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear.

Jer 24:7 I will give them a heart to know that I am the LORD, and they shall be my people and I will be their God, for they shall return to me with their whole heart.

Joh_10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.


Again, Jesus is giving us a cause and effect relationship.
Cause: You are not my sheep
Effect: You do not believe.

Same thing:
John 8:47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Cause: You do not belong to God
Effect: You do not hear what God says.

Pretty plain, obvious, straightforward, clear-cut, unequivocal
.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
.
Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant that the LORD commanded Moses to make with the people of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant that he had made with them at Horeb. 2 And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “You have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, 3 the great trials that your eyes saw, the signs, and those great wonders. 4 But to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear.

Jer 24:7 I will give them a heart to know that I am the LORD, and they shall be my people and I will be their God, for they shall return to me with their whole heart.

Joh_10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.


Again, Jesus is giving us a cause and effect relationship.
Cause: You are not my sheep
Effect: You do not believe.

Same thing:
John 8:47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Cause: You do not belong to God
Effect: You do not hear what God says.

Pretty plain, obvious, straightforward, clear-cut, unequivocal

They are two different libertarian groups with different previous histories and retributions and present day reactions.
 
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