Can You Pray to Whoever You Want to?

Tertiumquid

Well-known member
I found an old blog entry of mine from 2009 referencing a discussion HERE on the CARM Roman Catholic forum! In that old CARM thread, we were discussing the similarities and dissimilarities between Roman Catholics praying to deceased saints and the spiritualist practice of consulting spirits. Someone brought up the point that "[Roman] Catholics can only ask for the intercessory prayers of a saint." Back in 2009, I had always thought that as well... until I heard the magisterium's unofficial interpreter, Jimmy Akin, head apologist for Catholic Answers, say that isn't necessarily the case. I was able to restore the old MP3 clip from Catholic Answers. It's a short 3 minute clip that can be found here.

The CARM discussion from 2009 is probably long gone. Wow, the sands of time move quickly through the hourglass!

JS
 
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Can You Pray to Whoever You Want to?​


No: the word "pray" as used in the NT means to ask of the Divine EVERY time it is used.
We are only to pray TO the Divine

Pray (4336) (proseuchomai from pros = toward, facing, before [emphasizing the direct approach of the one who prays in seeking God’s face] + euchomai = originally to speak out, utter aloud, express a wish, then to pray or to vow. Greek technical term for invoking a deity) in the NT is always used of prayer addressed to God (to Him as the object of faith and the One who will answer one’s prayer) and means to speak consciously (with or without vocalization) to Him, with a definite

so praying to someone is implying that person is a deity

and btw the audio clip is about who can we pray for; not who can we pray to.
 
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and btw the audio clip is about who can we pray for; not who can we pray to.
If you listen to the entirety of the clip, Mr. Akin also discusses whom one can pray to. I included a larger context of the clip... so as to not take someone out of context.
 
If you listen to the entirety of the clip, Mr. Akin also discusses whom one can pray to. I included a larger context of the clip... so as to not take someone out of context.
my point remains:

Can You Pray to Whoever You Want to?​


No: the word "pray" as used in the NT means to ask of the Divine EVERY time it is used.
We are only to pray TO the Divine
 
my point remains:

Can You Pray to Whoever You Want to?​


No: the word "pray" as used in the NT means to ask of the Divine EVERY time it is used.
We are only to pray TO the Divine
For catholics they have redefined what prayer means. To them it just means talking to someone. Then they use poor out of context examples to back up their claim; i pray thee...They have to redefine words to make them appear to be legit practices; prayer, merit, presbuteros, what constitutes a work and what doesn't....A sure sign of a false church is when they have to redefine what biblical words mean.
 
If you listen to the entirety of the clip, Mr. Akin also discusses whom one can pray to. I included a larger context of the clip... so as to not take someone out of context.
I thought his answer was excellent. Praying for others and asking them to pray for us draws us out of ourselves and builds up the body of Christ in love. What's wrong with it? Asking his deceased wife to pray for him is not worshiping her.
 
I found an old blog entry of mine from 2009 referencing a discussion HERE on the CARM Roman Catholic forum! In that old CARM thread, we were discussing the similarities and dissimilarities between Roman Catholics praying to deceased saints and the spiritualist practice of consulting spirits. Someone brought up the point that "[Roman] Catholics can only ask for the intercessory prayers of a saint." Back in 2009, I had always thought that as well... until I heard the magisterium's unofficial interpreter, Jimmy Akin, head apologist for Catholic Answers, say that isn't necessarily the case. I was able to restore the old MP3 clip from Catholic Answers. It's a short 3 minute clip that can be found here.

The CARM discussion from 2009 is probably long gone. Wow, the sands of time move quickly through the hourglass!

JS
Prayers to Mary or angels that i've seen are anything but merely intercessory.

The CARM discussion from 2009 is probably long gone. Wow, the sands of time move quickly through the hourglass!

I've been here since 06-07. Now that you mention it, it is a long time. Thanks for making me feel old:) jk
 
I thought his answer was excellent. Praying for others and asking them to pray for us draws us out of ourselves and builds up the body of Christ in love. What's wrong with it? Asking his deceased wife to pray for him is not worshiping her.
Praying for and praying to are two different things. One is encouraged in scripture, the other isn't and never happens. Intercessory prayer is done by the living for the living (on earth) never to the deceased. The catholic practice is unbiblical and simply man made.
 
On this very board, I have witnessed Catholics argue that Jesus Christ prayed to demons.

No joke.

Any sick lie will do if it means they can promote their sect while doing do.
Doesn't surprise me. Probably one of their bat crazy 'saints' said it and they believe it. And if they don't it won't bother them they'll just say 'we don't have to believe that'. To any born again believer that kind of blasphemy would stir some righteous indignation. Not for catholics.
 
Praying for and praying to are two different things. One is encouraged in scripture, the other isn't and never happens. Intercessory prayer is done by the living for the living (on earth) never to the deceased. The catholic practice is unbiblical and simply man made.
I disagree. Does death cut the branches off the Vine? No. They are still attached to Jesus, WHO IS WITHIN US, right?

Scripture also tells us that the prayers of the righteous availeth much. Scripture ALSO tells us in Heb 12 that we in the church are amongst "the SPIRITS of the righteous made perfect".

And in 1 Cor 12, we see that we are ALL, including those who have preceded us, in the mystical body of Christ" and we all need each other.

12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.


15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.


21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be NO division in the body, but that its parts should have EQUAL CONCERN FOR EACH OTHER. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
 
I disagree. Does death cut the branches off the Vine? No. They are still attached to Jesus, WHO IS WITHIN US, right?

Scripture also tells us that the prayers of the righteous availeth much. Scripture ALSO tells us in Heb 12 that we in the church are amongst "the SPIRITS of the righteous made perfect".

And in 1 Cor 12, we see that we are ALL, including those who have preceded us, in the mystical body of Christ" and we all need each other.

12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.


15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.


21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be NO division in the body, but that its parts should have EQUAL CONCERN FOR EACH OTHER. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
the word "pray" as used in the Greek NT is always to a deity.
That's what the word means
Is that an irrelevant point to Catholics?
 
the word "pray" as used in the Greek NT is always to a deity.
That's what the word means
Is that an irrelevant point to Catholics?
I am pretty sure that the word "pray" has more than one definition.

So do you believe that believers are cut off from the Body of Christ when they die?
 
I am pretty sure that the word "pray" has more than one definition.
NOT in the NT
the word "pray" DOES NOOT have more than one definition in the NT
that's the point
It all rests on that point

So do you believe that believers are cut off from the Body of Christ when they die?
what does dead believers have to do with the Biblical meaning of the word "pray?
 
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Exactly! My observation as well.

I have been in CARM since 1-2000. What was that about being old? :)
I think circa 2000 or before i was probably doing this on beliefnet or something like that. There were some apologetic boards there too. Really don't remember how i stumbled across CARM. But no other boards are like this one. Others are like the wild west.
 
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