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treeplanter

Well-known member
John 14:6
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” “

When Jesus says that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him – does He actually mean NO ONE?


Does NO ONE mean, that of the human race, there are none who can come to God except through Him
or
does Jesus actually mean to say that there are certain people who can come to God without going through Him?

Does NO ONE mean, that of all people, there are none who can come to God except through Him
or
does Jesus actually mean to say that there are certain individuals who can come to God without going through Him?


It’s my belief that when Jesus Christ says that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him – He means this to include everybody – the entire human race, all people!

It is my belief that God says what He means and means what He says
NO ONE means NO ONE!


My Christian friend, though, seems confused
He maintains, for example, that when YHWH uses the term HUMAN RACE – it’s not meant to include all people

Specifically, when YHWH says:
“I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created”
{Genesis 6:7}
my Christian friend, somehow, insists that babies were not wiped away like the rest of the HUMAN RACE to which they obviously belong…

Likewise, my Christian friend asserts that when YHWH uses the term ALL PEOPLE – it’s meant to include only some persons on earth, namely those above a certain age

EX:
“I am going to put an end to all people"
{Genesis 6:13}
means, according to my Christian friend, that YHWH drowned everyone except babies - as if babies are not a part of ALL PEOPLE…



Anyway, here’s my concern:

If my Christian friend can’t get it through his head that HUMAN RACE and ALL PEOPLE automatically and absolutely includes babies, then who is to say that he might not get it into his head that one can come to God without faith in Jesus Christ despite Jesus Christ assuring us that NO ONE may come to the Father except through Him?

I’d hate for my friend to lose his salvation…

Can anyone help him to understand that NO ONE means NO ONE just as surely as HUMAN RACE means HUMAN RACE and ALL PEOPLE means ALL PEOPLE?
 

HouOz

Active member
John 14:6
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” “

When Jesus says that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him – does He actually mean NO ONE?


Does NO ONE mean, that of the human race, there are none who can come to God except through Him
or
does Jesus actually mean to say that there are certain people who can come to God without going through Him?

Does NO ONE mean, that of all people, there are none who can come to God except through Him
or
does Jesus actually mean to say that there are certain individuals who can come to God without going through Him?


It’s my belief that when Jesus Christ says that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him – He means this to include everybody – the entire human race, all people!

It is my belief that God says what He means and means what He says
NO ONE means NO ONE!


My Christian friend, though, seems confused
He maintains, for example, that when YHWH uses the term HUMAN RACE – it’s not meant to include all people

Specifically, when YHWH says:
“I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created”
{Genesis 6:7}
my Christian friend, somehow, insists that babies were not wiped away like the rest of the HUMAN RACE to which they obviously belong…

Likewise, my Christian friend asserts that when YHWH uses the term ALL PEOPLE – it’s meant to include only some persons on earth, namely those above a certain age

EX:
“I am going to put an end to all people"
{Genesis 6:13}
means, according to my Christian friend, that YHWH drowned everyone except babies - as if babies are not a part of ALL PEOPLE…



Anyway, here’s my concern:

If my Christian friend can’t get it through his head that HUMAN RACE and ALL PEOPLE automatically and absolutely includes babies, then who is to say that he might not get it into his head that one can come to God without faith in Jesus Christ despite Jesus Christ assuring us that NO ONE may come to the Father except through Him?

I’d hate for my friend to lose his salvation…

Can anyone help him to understand that NO ONE means NO ONE just as surely as HUMAN RACE means HUMAN RACE and ALL PEOPLE means ALL PEOPLE?
Well there is another well known verse that warns..."narrow is the gate that leads to salvation..."
...so one can assume from these two conciliatory verses that a lot of people - the majority of mankind in fact, if the readings can be taken literally that is, will be going to that lovely place called Hell.
Such a benevolent god this Christian one.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Well there is another well known verse that warns..."narrow is the gate that leads to salvation..."
...so one can assume from these two conciliatory verses that a lot of people - the majority of mankind in fact, if the readings can be taken literally that is, will be going to that lovely place called Hell.
Such a benevolent god this Christian one.
Yeah, you'd think that if you were a loving gate, you'd want to be the widest and most welcoming gate possible!
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
He maintains, for example, that when YHWH uses the term HUMAN RACE – it’s not meant to include all people

He's right.

You should have kept reading instead of rushing to your computer to make such a dumb post, unless you want to claim that Noah and his seven other family members were not people.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
He's right.

You should have kept reading instead of rushing to your computer to make such a dumb post, unless you want to claim that Noah and his seven other family members were not people.
Everyone knows the story of the Great Flood, stigs

Nobody {with one possible exception, apparently}
is dumb enough to need for me to type out
EXCEPT FOR NOAH & CO!


Now, kindly explain how:

"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but
“I am going to put an end to all people"
doesn't mean that God drowned ALL PEOPLE?

Get to it, stiggy
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Everyone knows the story of the Great Flood, stigs

Except you, who didn't know about Noah's family. Did you finally finish Genesis 6?

Now, kindly explain how:

"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but
“I am going to put an end to all people"
doesn't mean that God drowned ALL PEOPLE?

I don't see the word "drowned." Were you thinking He drowned Noah's family?

Here: Let me lay some New Testament on ya:

1 Peter 3:18-22​

English Standard Version​

18 For Christ also suffered[a] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[b] he went and proclaimed[c] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[d] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Except you, who didn't know about Noah's family. Did you finally finish Genesis 6?



I don't see the word "drowned." Were you thinking He drowned Noah's family?

Here: Let me lay some New Testament on ya:

1 Peter 3:18-22​

English Standard Version​

18 For Christ also suffered[a] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[b] he went and proclaimed[c] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[d] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but
“I am going to put an end to all people"
doesn't mean that God drowned ALL PEOPLE {minus Noah & co}

EXPLAIN!
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but
“I am going to put an end to all people"
doesn't mean that God drowned ALL PEOPLE {minus Noah & co}

EXPLAIN!

Explain what? Why you made up "(minus Noah & co)?"

Because you thought I would not recognize your lie?
You tell me. Why the lie? EXPLAIN!
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Explain what? Why you made up "(minus Noah & co)?"

Because you thought I would not recognize your lie?
You tell me. Why the lie? EXPLAIN!
"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but, according to you,
When God said that “I am going to put an end to all people"
He didn't mean ALL PEOPLE to include babies

How come you are calling God a liar?
EXPLAIN!
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
When God said that “I am going to put an end to all people"
He didn't mean ALL PEOPLE to include babies

You think Noah and his wife were babies? LOL.

1 Peter 3:18-22​

English Standard Version​

18 For Christ also suffered[a] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[b] he went and proclaimed[c] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[d] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
You think Noah and his wife were babies? LOL.

1 Peter 3:18-22​

English Standard Version​

18 For Christ also suffered[a] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[b] he went and proclaimed[c] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[d] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Nope, Noah & co were not babies
They were the handful of adults that God decided to spare


Now YOU need to act like an adult and address the following:

"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but, according to you,
When God said that “I am going to put an end to all people"
He didn't mean ALL PEOPLE to include babies

How come you are calling God a liar?
How is it that NO ONE means NO ONE, but ALL PEOPLE means something less than ALL PEOPLE?
EXPLAIN!
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but
“I am going to put an end to all people"
doesn't mean that God drowned ALL PEOPLE {minus Noah & co}

EXPLAIN!

We don't have to explain anything. We are left with the Bible, but none us claim that we can explain everything that God decreed. Which BTW destroys your entire premise.

I personally believe what the Bible teaches. Others may hold different views.

This is what the Bible teaches.


John 6:37-39English Standard Version (ESV)

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

John 6:44English Standard Version (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.



Romans 9:14-24English Standard Version (ESV)

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[a] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?



Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Spiritual Blessings in Christ


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[a] for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[b] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,



Romans 8:28-30English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.



Ephesians 2:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.



Acts 13:48English Standard Version (ESV)

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.



Colossians 2:13English Standard Version (ESV)

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,



Titus 3:5English Standard Version (ESV)

5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,



1 Peter 1:3English Standard Version (ESV)

Born Again to a Living Hope


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,



2 Timothy 2:25English Standard Version (ESV)

25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,



Ezekiel 36:25-26English Standard Version (ESV)

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.



Deuteronomy 30:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

*************************


I encourage you to read them, but understand that we might see it again when you try to use it against us.

I get it. Dan Barker from the FFRF is my cousin, so yes, I get it.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Why are you evading telling me what I'm supposedly evading?

stiggy my friend, this thread is posted for ONE primary reason. The intention is to try to make Christians look mean, stupid or any other aspersions that comes to mind.

People who haven't read the entirety of scripture like to cherry pick one verse and try to turn it into something faith shattering.

The verses he provided say zilch about babies. His friend claimed 'except babies', but that's not in the scripture in this context.

You and I know that there are theological terms that have a range of meanings.


Genesis 6:7


Genesis 6:13


This is what atheists do. They aren't content to allow random stardust to rule everything, they want to rule over us as well.

Just to add, the verses do say that God destroys these people, but it's an extrapolation by atheists, that they are ALL in hell. That is unknowable.

God speed. ✝️
 
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Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Nope, Noah & co were not babies
They were the handful of adults that God decided to spare


Now YOU need to act like an adult and address the following:

"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but, according to you,
When God said that “I am going to put an end to all people"
He didn't mean ALL PEOPLE to include babies

How come you are calling God a liar?

How is it that NO ONE means NO ONE, but ALL PEOPLE means something less than ALL PEOPLE?
EXPLAIN!
Red bolding mine. Do you think that this statement will help your case? It won't. It just makes you look like a bully. Dan tried that with me. He doesn't anymore. Anyone who will disrespect their own grandmother by stating things about her that are not true, in a book that they sell, has no credibility with me. I thought that atheists and liberals didn't like bullies. I admit, I could be misinformed on this point.

Misquoting the poster, further demonstrates a losing position.

No such lie was told. Your random stardust needs a serious refill.
 
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stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Nope, Noah & co were not babies
They were the handful of adults that God decided to spare

Correct.

Now YOU need to act like an adult and address the following:

"No one comes to the Father except through me”
means that NO ONE comes to God except through Jesus
but, according to you,
When God said that “I am going to put an end to all people"
He didn't mean ALL PEOPLE to include babies

If Noah and his family were not people, what were they: Aardvarks?
Explain.

How come you are calling God a liar?

How come you are calling Pee Wee Herman an albino?

How is it that NO ONE means NO ONE, but ALL PEOPLE means something less than ALL PEOPLE?

It obviously does not mean Mr, and Mrs. Noah and sons and daughters-in-law. Explain.
 

HouOz

Active member
stiggy my friend, this thread is posted for ONE primary reason. The intention is to try to make Christians look mean, stupid or any other aspersions that comes to mind.

People who haven't read the entirety of scripture like to cherry pick one verse and try to turn it into something faith shattering.

The verses he provided say zilch about babies. His friend claimed 'except babies', but that's not in the scripture in this context.

You and I know that there are theological terms that have a range of meanings.


Genesis 6:7


Genesis 6:13


This is what atheists do. They aren't content to allow random stardust to rule everything, they want to rule over us as well.

Just to add, the verses do say that God destroys these people, but it's an extrapolation by atheists, that they are ALL in hell. That is unknowable.

God speed. ✝️
Not at all.
This thread was posted to show how uncaring this (alleged) god is and how blinded christians are to this and it's other shortcomings.
 

Algernon

Active member
John 14:6
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” “

When Jesus says that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him – does He actually mean NO ONE?


Does NO ONE mean, that of the human race, there are none who can come to God except through Him
or
does Jesus actually mean to say that there are certain people who can come to God without going through Him?

Does NO ONE mean, that of all people, there are none who can come to God except through Him
or
does Jesus actually mean to say that there are certain individuals who can come to God without going through Him?


It’s my belief that when Jesus Christ says that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him – He means this to include everybody – the entire human race, all people!
Yes. When Jesus says NO ONE, He means NO ONE. So yes, it includes the entire human race. Never ceases to amaze me how biblical literalists take metaphor and other figurative language literally and very concrete and specific non-figurative language literally in order to get the Bible to say what they what they want it to say.

That said, Jesus does NOT literally "mean to say that there are certain people who can come to God without going through Him". Not in the way that Christians typically use it: Everyone must "believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus" or some variation thereof. The real question is what does Jesus mean by "the way and the truth and the life" and "through me"? The context does not support the concept that "the way and the truth and the life" means " "believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus".
 
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