CARMS semi pelagians and their false teaching on regeneration

[ReverendRV]

No

that compatibilists are immune from ignoring scripture when it does not agree with them

Fair enough. For the Lurkers, I would say though, Systematic Theology and Compatibalism reconciles stand-alone Verses to other stand-alone Verses...

Systematic Theology is Compatibalism. Systematic Theology needs Compatibalism. For instance, Jesus is God and Man; and the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are One. You can say the Bible tells us so; but tell that to a Muslim or a Jew. There are Verses which say God is One, and Verses which teach God is Triune; so what does Systematic Theology and Compatibalism give us? They give us 'Trinitarian Monotheism'...

Trinitarian Monotheism is incompatible; three and one are not the same. So you owe Compatibalism a nod for Trinitarian Monotheism. You should agree with Muslims since you're not a Compatibalist...

 

[TomFL]

Fair enough. For the Lurkers, I would say though, Systematic Theology and Compatibalism reconciles stand-alone Verses to other stand-alone Verses...

Systematic Theology is Compatibalism. Systematic Theology needs Compatibalism. For instance; Jesus is God and Man, and the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are One. You can say the Bible tells us so; but tell that to a Muslim or a Jew. There are Verses which say God is One, and Verses which teach God is Triune; so what does Systematic Theology and Compatibalism give us? They give us 'Trinitarian Monotheism'...

Compatibilism is simply the belief that free will and determination are compatible

I disagree

Philemon 1:14 along with its various translations tell me necessity is contrary to free will

 

[armylngst]

Sorry you just ignored scripture

Hypocrite, you did the same. Why are you still not posting verse 30? Is it because even you understand that it shows that you are wrong?

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

there is a clear order here

No there is not. It is glossing over what the author hopes to occur if one reads the words of Christ that the author has recorded in his book. (Verse 30, you know, the verse you ignore?) The author is saying that while there are many things that Jesus did, signs and wonders, and teaching, none of that is recorded. However, in kindness, this author has written down SOME of what Jesus said, that people might be saved by it. That is all it is saying. The author is hoping that someone reading the book might believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that this belief gives them life through his name. (Eternal life.) The clear order you believe you see is very much an abstraction. It is an abstraction of regeneration->understanding the gospel->faith->repentance->new life in Christ.

Believe that you might have life

Or, in normal English, believe and be saved, or as Paul said it to the jailer "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." And don't forget, the jailer was BESIDE HIMSELF with TERROR when he asked Paul what he must do to be saved. The awakened soul sought out the answer.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

repent unto life

"18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.” (ESV) To put it in simple English, God had granted to the Gentiles salvation. This does NOTHING for your argument that regeneration does not come before faith. Once again regeneration->faith->repentance->new life (salvation).

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


come to Christ through dfaith that you might have life

You added quite a bit to that verse. Always nice when you include the whole context (I also only include part, because I am not trying to make a HUGE post: "39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”"

If you read this whole section, you will not find what you are saying, but that Jesus is making a bigger point. Why do you always rip verses from context?

I would have continued on except that I saw that you once again could not bring yourself to understand what I Corinthians is ACTUALLY saying, and the funny thing is that Paul is quite clear about what he is saying. It has been explained to you over and over, yet you won't accept the clear teaching of the word.

 

[TomFL]

Hypocrite, you did the same. Why are you still not posting verse 30? Is it because even you understand that it shows that you are wrong?

Lets see I posted

Sorry you just ignored scripture

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

there is a clear order here

Believe that you might have life

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

repent unto life

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


come to Christ through faith that you might have life

So by stating "you did the same thing" you have admitted you ignored scripture



In regard to the bolded phrase

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through his name.

you state

No there is not. It is glossing over what the author hopes to occur if one reads the words of Christ that the author has recorded in his book. (Verse 30, you know, the verse you ignore?) The author is saying that while there are many things that Jesus did, signs and wonders, and teaching, none of that is recorded. However, in kindness, this author has written down SOME of what Jesus said, that people might be saved by it. That is all it is saying. The author is hoping that someone reading the book might believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that this belief gives them life through his name. (Eternal life.) The clear order you believe you see is very much an abstraction. It is an abstraction of regeneration->understanding the gospel->faith->repentance->new life in Christ.

Sorry but that looks like bald denial

and that believing ye might have life through his name.

anyone can see believing precedes having life in his name

Now you appeal to verse 30

John 20:30 (KJV)
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

Now explain how that mitigates against Johns statement

and that believing ye might have life through his name.

for that surly looks like an empty claim

Or, in normal English, believe and be saved, or as Paul said it to the jailer "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." And don't forget, the jailer was BESIDE HIMSELF with TERROR when he asked Paul what he must do to be saved. The awakened soul sought out the answer.

The text was

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Is belief not required before he can be saved ?

Nothing is mentioned of regeneration

"18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.” (ESV) To put it in simple English, God had granted to the Gentiles salvation. This does NOTHING for your argument that regeneration does not come before faith. Once again regeneration->faith->repentance->new life (salvation).

Wrong ! regeneration is new life

Why do Calvinist argue man must first be made alive before he can believe if regeneration is not equated with new life

or why do they refer to quickening being made alive in passages like Col 2 and Ephesians 2 as regeneration

or perhaps you will like this

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God,

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

or this from CARM

Regeneration

It is the act of God whereby He renews the spiritual condition of a sinner. It is a spiritual change brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit so that the person then possesses new life–eternal life.

In this sense of the word regeneration may be defined as that act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy.

Manual of Christian Doctrine

L. Berkhof, Manual of Christian Doctrine (Grand Rapids, MI: WM. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1933), 236.

many more available in the op regeneration as new life

You added quite a bit to that verse. Always nice when you include the whole context (I also only include part, because I am not trying to make a HUGE post: "39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”"

If you read this whole section, you will not find what you are saying, but that Jesus is making a bigger point. Why do you always rip verses from context?

You failed to address the key verse offering only a bald denial

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Life follows coming to Christ in faith

why do you always skip over what the key verse shows

I would have continued on except that I saw that you once again could not bring yourself to understand what I Corinthians is ACTUALLY saying, and the funny thing is that Paul is quite clear about what he is saying. It has been explained to you over and over, yet you won't accept the clear teaching of the word.

That is another empty claim

The verse is

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

what have you provided proving I have misunderstood the verse ?

Nothing that I can see

 

[Manfred]

So you guys are not regenerate then, because you still sin. LOL! Go figure.

5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Are you under law or grace....

 

[TomFL]

5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Are you under law or grace....

I kind of looks like he has a foot in Law

Perhaps comingling the two