Catch 22 Calvinist style

TomFL

Well-known member
The Past Tense works for me brother; especially when it's modified by "Not of the Will of Man"...
?????

What do you believe that is telling you

One must receive that is believe on Christ before one is born again that is receive new life

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

John 5:40 —ESV
“yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”

John 5:24 —ESV
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Save your theology I am talking about the word of God

The aorist tense is usually enumerated in the English past tense

both verbs receive and were born

One need to receive Christ to be born again

John 5:40 —ESV
“yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
Im speaking about the word of God. The natural man cannot understand it. Its of the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2 14
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Im speaking about the word of God. The natural man cannot understand it. Its of the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2 14
If you are speaking of the word of God why did you avoid it


One need to receive Christ to be born again

John 5:40 —ESV
“yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

John 5:24 —ESV
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
If you are speaking of the word of God why did you avoid it


One need to receive Christ to be born again

John 5:40 —ESV
“yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”

That doesn't mention "born again".

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

That doesn't mention "born again".

John 5:24 —ESV
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

That doesn't mention "born again".
 

TomFL

Well-known member
That doesn't mention "born again".



That doesn't mention "born again".



That doesn't mention "born again".
Born again - regeneration denote the impartation of life

All those verses speak of the the impartation of life

so you are offering is denial
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Born again - regeneration denote the impartation of life

All those verses speak of the the impartation of life

so you are offering is denial

And here you go, rationalizing again.

"regeneration" and "life" are NOT the same thing.
They are different words.
The Bible describes the DIFFERENTLY.
They are NOT interchangeable.

If we did something like this, you'd call us out on it in a New York minute.
But apparently it's okay for you to play fast and loose with the truth, because you don't care what the Bible teaches, you only care about defending your false theology.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
If you are speaking of the word of God why did you avoid it


One need to receive Christ to be born again

John 5:40 —ESV
“yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

John 5:24 —ESV
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
Im not avoiding those scriptures, I agree with them, so I dont need to do anything with them. However the Natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him, the word of God is spiritually discerned and unfortunately the natural man is void of the Spirit of God.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
And here you go, rationalizing again.

"regeneration" and "life" are NOT the same thing.
They are different words.
The Bible describes the DIFFERENTLY.
They are NOT interchangeable.

If we did something like this, you'd call us out on it in a New York minute.
But apparently it's okay for you to play fast and loose with the truth, because you don't care what the Bible teaches, you only care about defending your false theology.
Sorry you have done nothing to show anything false

and are in denial

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

πᾰλιγγενεσία, ἡ, rebirth, regeneration, of the world, παλιγγενεσίας ἡγεμόνες. of Noah and his sons, Id.2.144; ἡ ἀνάκτησις καὶ π. τῆς πατρίδος J.AJ11.3.9; cf. Memn.40.2 J., renewal of a race, Corp.Herm.3.3; of persons, beginning of a new life,

Henry George Liddell et al., A Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1996), 1291.

The metaphor of ‘new birth’ is so important in the NT that it should be retained if at all possible. In some languages ‘new birth’ can be expressed as ‘to cause to be born all over again’ or ‘to have a new life as though one were born a second time.’ See also 13.55.

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 510.

as well as Calvinist theologians cited previously

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes. Moody handbook of theology

At the present time it is used in a far more restricted sense, to denote the divine act by which the sinner is endowed with new spiritual life, and by which the principle of that new life is first called into action. Sometimes it is employed in an even more limited sense, as a designation of the implanting of the new life in the soul, apart from the first manifestations of this life. In this sense of the word regeneration may be defined as that act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy.
Berkhof Manual of Christian doctrine


REGENERATION


§ 1. Usage of the Word

The subjective change wrought in the soul by the grace of God, is variously designated in Scripture. It is called a new birth, a resurrection, a new life, a new creature,
Hodge's systematic theology
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Im not avoiding those scriptures, I agree with them, so I dont need to do anything with them. However the Natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him, the word of God is spiritually discerned and unfortunately the natural man is void of the Spirit of God.
Sorry no you do not

One needs to receive Christ to be born again

John 5:40 —ESV
“yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

John 5:24 —ESV
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
<sigh>

I swear, you would argue with a rock.

Sorry you have done nothing to show anything false

and are in denial

Nope, YOU are the one "in denial".

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God

And if it did NOT say "the production of", then you might be right.
But it DOES say that, meaning that it is DIFFERENT than "new life".

You are wrong.
Simply admit it.

πᾰλιγγενεσία, ἡ, rebirth, regeneration, of the world, παλιγγενεσίας ἡγεμόνες. of Noah and his sons, Id.2.144; ἡ ἀνάκτησις καὶ π. τῆς πατρίδος J.AJ11.3.9; cf. Memn.40.2 J., renewal of a race, Corp.Herm.3.3; of persons, beginning of a new life,

And if it did NOT say "beginning of a", then you might be right.
But it DOES say that, meaning that it is DIFFERENT than "new life".

You are wrong.
Simply admit it.


Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.”

And if it did NOT say "to impart", then you might be right.
But it DOES say that, meaning that it is DIFFERENT than "life".

You are wrong.
Simply admit it.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
<sigh>

I swear, you would argue with a rock.



Nope, YOU are the one "in denial".



And if it did NOT say "the production of", then you might be right.
But it DOES say that, meaning that it is DIFFERENT than "new life".

You are wrong.
Simply admit it.



And if it did NOT say "beginning of a", then you might be right.
But it DOES say that, meaning that it is DIFFERENT than "new life".

You are wrong.
Simply admit it.




And if it did NOT say "to impart", then you might be right.
But it DOES say that, meaning that it is DIFFERENT than "life".

You are wrong.
Simply admit it.
As typical you ignore the evidence to post rhetoric

Sorry you have done nothing to show anything false

and are in denial

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

πᾰλιγγενεσία, ἡ, rebirth, regeneration, of the world, παλιγγενεσίας ἡγεμόνες. of Noah and his sons, Id.2.144; ἡ ἀνάκτησις καὶ π. τῆς πατρίδος J.AJ11.3.9; cf. Memn.40.2 J., renewal of a race, Corp.Herm.3.3; of persons, beginning of a new life,

Henry George Liddell et al., A Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1996), 1291.

The metaphor of ‘new birth’ is so important in the NT that it should be retained if at all possible. In some languages ‘new birth’ can be expressed as ‘to cause to be born all over again’ or ‘to have a new life as though one were born a second time.’ See also 13.55.

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 510.

as well as Calvinist theologians cited previously

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes. Moody handbook of theology

At the present time it is used in a far more restricted sense, to denote the divine act by which the sinner is endowed with new spiritual life, and by which the principle of that new life is first called into action. Sometimes it is employed in an even more limited sense, as a designation of the implanting of the new life in the soul, apart from the first manifestations of this life. In this sense of the word regeneration may be defined as that act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy.
Berkhof Manual of Christian doctrine


REGENERATION


§ 1. Usage of the Word

The subjective change wrought in the soul by the grace of God, is variously designated in Scripture. It is called a new birth, a resurrection, a new life, a new creature,
Hodge's systematic theology


PS there is the new life you stated would prove my point

Your argument was incredibly weak to start with as some refered to the act and others the state

it should have been apparent to anyone the act produces the state

The beginning of new life production of new life leaves one in a regenerated state

The entrance or beginning of new life leave one in a state of new life

sorry you are in denial
 
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Sethproton

Well-known member
That's true, but Grace is before Faith in the text; if Faith were before Grace in the text, I couldn't argue against that...

I thought it was okay to show verses which teach Regeneration "in other words"? In other words, the verse has Grace first...
I don't think I said anything contrary to grace before faith. Everything we have from God is by His grace. And if I objected to you using other words that mean the same or are about the same thing as regeneration, I don't mean to.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Of course. And it always reminds me to seek God and ask Him to break me free from my own darling doctrines, when the Word has something else to say about them.

Few are willing to let go of such idols and would rather serve them than Jesus Christ.

No one can serve two masters or he will love the one and hate the other.

You can always tell if they really love Christ or their doctrines.
 
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