Catholics: WHAT exactly descended out of heaven?

balshan

Well-known member
From Catholic answers:

The Catholic Church teaches that after the valid words of institution by an ordained priest, Christ is really, truly, and substantially present in every discernible particle of what appears to be bread and wine. ...

For this reason, every parish sacristy has a special sink called a sacrarium that empties directly into the ground rather than into the sewer system, so that any remaining particles are properly buried when the vessels are washed. These practices are a sign of tremendous respect for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. ...

Catholics believe that because the Eucharist is Jesus Christ—the second person of the Blessed Trinity, fully human and fully divine—it is due reverence and adoration.
 

A new day

Well-known member
Matthew 26: 26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Believe it or don't believe it?

This is the only verse rc's cling to. No human can ever attain divinity. No matter how much the rc institution tells you. It is a lie. Without this lie, the pope can not claim infallibility. Nor can he lay claim to the title of "vicar of Christ" No matter, the rc pope is creation. God is NOT a created being. Only God is divine. We humans can live a life that is wholesome and pleases God, but we can NEVER take on his essence and totality of His being. No amount of grace earned, will cause any human to become a god.

Ezekiel 28:2
"Son of man, tell the ruler of Tyre that this is what the Lord GOD says: Your heart is proud, and you have said, 'I am a god; I sit in the seat of gods in the heart of the sea.' Yet you are a man and not a god, though you have regarded your heart as that of a god.

Isaiah 14:14-15
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.” But you will be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Matthew 26: 26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”

This is MY body.
We are HIS body.

The Scriptures tell us HOW this is his body. Here is HOW "this is my body"

Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.
1 Corinthians 10:17

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1 Corinthians 11:26-28

Listen to what it says. They were eating BREAD. And because they ate the one BREAD, they are Christ's BODY.
 

balshan

Well-known member
From Catholic answers:

The Catholic Church teaches that after the valid words of institution by an ordained priest, Christ is really, truly, and substantially present in every discernible particle of what appears to be bread and wine. ...

For this reason, every parish sacristy has a special sink called a sacrarium that empties directly into the ground rather than into the sewer system, so that any remaining particles are properly buried when the vessels are washed. These practices are a sign of tremendous respect for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. ...

Catholics believe that because the Eucharist is Jesus Christ—the second person of the Blessed Trinity, fully human and fully divine—it is due reverence and adoration.
I am finding this strange they have a special sink so Jesus doesn't go through the sewer but He goes through the sewer when he is expelled from our bodies.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
For this reason, every parish sacristy has a special sink called a sacrarium that empties directly into the ground rather than into the sewer system, so that any remaining particles are properly buried when the vessels are washed. These practices are a sign of tremendous respect for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. ...
Hmmm... Respect, huh?
Gen 3:17 ISV He told the man, “Because you have listened to what your wife said, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground because of you. You’ll eat from it through pain-filled labor for the rest of your life."

We still have weeds and thorns; we still struggle to bring in crops, ergo, the ground is still cursed. Great way to show respect, guys, considering that God says:

Exo 12:10 ISV Don’t leave any of it [the Passover lamb] until morning, and whatever does remain of it until morning you are to burn in the fire.

Don’t bury it, don't throw it on the midden-heap, don't keep it for the next day's meal: burn it as you would a sacrifice.

And the Roman Catholics believe that they are honoring God by following their church's complete, outright rebellion against what He has so plainly stated.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
The church doesn't teach that the bread changes into literal flesh.
If its not literally him then youre worshiping a symbol of god, not god and even you would call that idolatry. I call the whole thing idolatry. But here is your ccc on the matter.

1392 What material food produces in our bodily life, Holy Communion wonderfully achieves in our spiritual life. Communion with the flesh of the risen Christ

Seems your church does in fact teach that its flesh. What do catholics always say here..it doesn't say its a symbol therefore it must be actual flesh. Or do we need an infallible interpretation of the dumbed down ccc for lay people?
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
This is MY body.
We are HIS body.

The Scriptures tell us HOW this is his body. Here is HOW "this is my body"

Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.
1 Corinthians 10:17

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1 Corinthians 11:26-28

Listen to what it says. They were eating BREAD. And because they ate the one BREAD, they are Christ's BODY.
Thats entirely too simple. Catholics need a much more complex and confusing system or they might actually understand true salvation.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
If its not literally him then youre worshiping a symbol of god, not god and even you would call that idolatry. I call the whole thing idolatry. But here is your ccc on the matter.

1392 What material food produces in our bodily life, Holy Communion wonderfully achieves in our spiritual life. Communion with the flesh of the risen Christ

Seems your church does in fact teach that its flesh. What do catholics always say here..it doesn't say its a symbol therefore it must be actual flesh. Or do we need an infallible interpretation of the dumbed down ccc for lay people?
Jesus' glorified flesh. What all can glorified flesh do? What physical properties does it have? We don't know for sure.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
Jesus' glorified flesh. What all can glorified flesh do? What physical properties does it have? We don't know for sure.
We know its physical. Jesus told Thomas to reach out and touch Him. "Flesh and bone..." And if the mass is a 're-presentation' of the sacrifice of calvary, whats the risen Christ doing there? You guys love to put the cart before the horse don't you?
 

Kirby

Active member
If its not literally him then youre worshiping a symbol of god, not god and even you would call that idolatry. I call the whole thing idolatry. But here is your ccc on the matter.

1392 What material food produces in our bodily life, Holy Communion wonderfully achieves in our spiritual life. Communion with the flesh of the risen Christ

Seems your church does in fact teach that its flesh. What do catholics always say here..it doesn't say its a symbol therefore it must be actual flesh. Or do we need an infallible interpretation of the dumbed down ccc for lay people?
It is literally Jesus; Body (flesh if you prefer), Blood, Soul and Divinity. It is not physical flesh, like a human steak. This is Divine Revelation known by faith. If you try to reason your way to Divine Revelation you’ll never get there.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
It is literally Jesus; Body (flesh if you prefer), Blood, Soul and Divinity. It is not physical flesh, like a human steak. This is Divine Revelation known by faith. If you try to reason your way to Divine Revelation you’ll never get there.
It can't be 'literally Jesus' and at the same time 'not physical flesh.' Thats you trying to justify this nonsense. The pre crucifixion Christ was a real human being. The risen Christ was a glorified human being, both real and physical. I never said he was a 'steak'. A human being is a human being. The ccc is telling you the official teaching and it seems catholics here want to shy away from that.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
We know its physical. Jesus told Thomas to reach out and touch Him. "Flesh and bone..." And if the mass is a 're-presentation' of the sacrifice of calvary, whats the risen Christ doing there? You guys love to put the cart before the horse don't you?
That "flesh and bone" walked through a locked door, walked on water, disappeared and appeared at will and flew up into the air at the Ascension. Not what normal human flesh does.
 

balshan

Well-known member
If its not literally him then youre worshiping a symbol of god, not god and even you would call that idolatry. I call the whole thing idolatry. But here is your ccc on the matter.

1392 What material food produces in our bodily life, Holy Communion wonderfully achieves in our spiritual life. Communion with the flesh of the risen Christ

Seems your church does in fact teach that its flesh. What do catholics always say here..it doesn't say its a symbol therefore it must be actual flesh. Or do we need an infallible interpretation of the dumbed down ccc for lay people?
Once again you post the truth.
 

balshan

Well-known member
That "flesh and bone" walked through a locked door, walked on water, disappeared and appeared at will and flew up into the air at the Ascension. Not what normal human flesh does.
There was evidence of those things happening. People saw Him after he walked through the door but still Thomas checked out that it was Him. The evidence of Him walking on water was so strong that Peter also walked on water. No evidence of the bread and wine becoming flesh and blood.
 

A new day

Well-known member
That "flesh and bone" walked through a locked door, walked on water, disappeared and appeared at will and flew up into the air at the Ascension. Not what normal human flesh does.

Scripture says

Luke 24:38-40
He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
 
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