Chain of authority

ding

Member
Going up as a Catholic I remember being taught the chain of authority within the Catholic church. Jesus was the head of the church and under Jesus was the Pope, and then the archbishop, then the bishop, the priest and then my parents. So I always viewed listening to the priest and my parents as listening to God.

The nCCs, however, tell me/us not to listen to the church but to listen to scripture, actually they say to listen to scripture alone. So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith? Jesus I would assume would be the head of the church but who or what would be under Jesus?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
pure strongman nonsense:

How many time to you need to be told?
Sola Scriptura does not deny other authorities

From Catholic.com
the principle of sola scriptura ("Scripture alone"), according to the sharpest Protestant scholars, means that the Bible is the ultimate authority—above councils and popes and any tradition—but not that no commentary or tradition may be cited or utilized

from New Advent
"The [first] objective [or formal] principle proclaims the canonical Scriptures, especially the New Testament, to be the only infallible source and rule of faith and practice (not the only source)"
" Protestantism, however, by no means despises or rejects church authority as such, but only subordinates it to, and measures its value by, the Bible,"

from James White:....

Secondly, it is not a denial of the Church’s authority to teach God’s truth. I Timothy 3:15 describes the Church as “the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The truth is in Jesus Christ and in His Word. The Church teaches truth and calls men to Christ and, in so doing, functions as the pillar and foundation thereof. The Church does not add revelation or rule over Scripture. The Church being the bride of Christ, listens to the Word of Christ, which is found in God-breathed Scripture.
 

ding

Member
pure strongman nonsense:

How many time to you need to be told?
Sola Scriptura does not deny other authorities

From Catholic.com
the principle of sola scriptura ("Scripture alone"), according to the sharpest Protestant scholars, means that the Bible is the ultimate authority—above councils and popes and any tradition—but not that no commentary or tradition may be cited or utilized

from New Advent
"The [first] objective [or formal] principle proclaims the canonical Scriptures, especially the New Testament, to be the only infallible source and rule of faith and practice (not the only source)"
" Protestantism, however, by no means despises or rejects church authority as such, but only subordinates it to, and measures its value by, the Bible,"

from James White:....

Secondly, it is not a denial of the Church’s authority to teach God’s truth. I Timothy 3:15 describes the Church as “the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The truth is in Jesus Christ and in His Word. The Church teaches truth and calls men to Christ and, in so doing, functions as the pillar and foundation thereof. The Church does not add revelation or rule over Scripture. The Church being the bride of Christ, listens to the Word of Christ, which is found in God-breathed Scripture.
I didn't ask for a discourse on the meaning of sola scriptura, I asked:

So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith?

You didn't answer my question?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Going up as a Catholic I remember being taught the chain of authority within the Catholic church. Jesus was the head of the church and under Jesus was the Pope, and then the archbishop, then the bishop, the priest and then my parents. So I always viewed listening to the priest and my parents as listening to God.

The nCCs, however, tell me/us not to listen to the church but to listen to scripture, actually they say to listen to scripture alone. So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith? Jesus I would assume would be the head of the church but who or what would be under Jesus?

I didn't ask for a discourse on the meaning of sola scriptura, I asked:

So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith?

You didn't answer my question?
then next time don't start a paragraph with
"The nCCs, however, tell me/us not to listen to the church but to listen to scripture, actually they say to listen to scripture alone"

and I guess you also don't want to discuss
"So I always viewed listening to the priest and my parents as listening to God."
 

ding

Member
then next time don't start a paragraph with
"The nCCs, however, tell me/us not to listen to the church but to listen to scripture, actually they say to listen to scripture alone"
Sorry if that mislead you, but what is the chain of command as a Christian?

So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Sorry if that mislead you, but what is the chain of command as a Christian?

So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith?
After Christ: then Plurality of Elders/ then deacons

in my church : the teaching pastor (the one who usually gives the Sermon) is not the head : He is under the authority of the Elders
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Sorry if that mislead you, but what is the chain of command as a Christian?

So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith?
The Autonomy of the Local Church

Every local assembly in the early days of Christianity was autonomous – that is, self-governing. There was no federation of churches with a centralized authority over them. There was no denominations and therefore no denominational headquarters. Each local church was directly responsible to the Lord. This is pictured in Revelation 1:13 where the Lord I seen standing in the middle of the seven golden lampstands. These represent the seven churches of Asia. The point is that there is no governing agency between the individual churches and the great Head of the church Himself. Each one was governed directly by Him.

Why is this so important?
First, it hinders the spread of error. When churches are linked together under a common control, the forces of liberalism, rationalism, and apostasy can capture the entire ground simply by seizing the central headquarters and denominational schools. Where churches are independent, the struggle must be waged by the enemy against a host of separate units.

Second, the autonomy of the local church is an important protection when a hostile government is in power. When churches are federated, a totalitarian government can control them all by controlling a few leaders at headquarters. When churches refuse to recognize any centralized authority, they can more readily go underground at times of oppression.

Many governments today, whether democratic or dictatorial, try to bring about the union of small, independent churches. They say they do not want to deal with a large number of local units but with a central committee representing them all. Free governments try to bring about this union by the offer of certain favors and benefits. Other governments try to force the union by edict, as Hitler did during the Third Reich. In either case, the churches which yield to the pressure lose their scriptural character as well as their ability to resist modernism and to carry on secretly in time of persecution.


The history of the church speaks for itself. Wherever there has been federation of churches under a central organization, there has been an acceleration of decline. The purest testimony for God has been maintained by churches which are free from outside human domination.”

-William MacDonald, Believer’s Bible Commentary, P. 1631-1632
 
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Going up as a Catholic I remember being taught the chain of authority within the Catholic church. Jesus was the head of the church and under Jesus was the Pope, and then the archbishop, then the bishop, the priest and then my parents. So I always viewed listening to the priest and my parents as listening to God.

The nCCs, however, tell me/us not to listen to the church but to listen to scripture, actually they say to listen to scripture alone. So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith? Jesus I would assume would be the head of the church but who or what would be under Jesus?
"nCCs", Equal non Catholic Churches, Right ???

AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

When dealing with any agent of "the devil", "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" takes first priority in precedence within the hierarchy within GOD's government.

I believe a drill down precedence of understanding of the source of information, starting with GOD's Word first/highest authority feeding the meaning into the lower levels of source of information.

So GOD's Words will trump any Pope's words in precedence, because any Pope does NOT out rank GOD's revealed will.

AV Re 1:1-3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

"Jesus I would assume would be the head of the church but who or what would be under Jesus?", The chain of revelation is a good start.

1. GOD
2. "gave unto him", Jesus will always agree with GOD.
3. "by his angel", These Messengers will always agree with GOD.
____A. Jesus does use the Holy Spirit in this step too.
AV Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
4. "his servant John", Our service will always agree with the precedence of Truth from GOD.

Conclusion: The chain of evidence from GOD, agrees at every step back to GOD.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

mica

Well-known member
God's word will trump the words of any minister or bible teacher. We always check scripture to be sure we are being taught the truth. that also requires us to study and learn what it says.

the Bereans checked Paul's teachings against scripture.
 

ding

Member
God's word will trump the words of any minister or bible teacher. We always check scripture to be sure we are being taught the truth. that also requires us to study and learn what it says.

the Bereans checked Paul's teachings against scripture.
So in your church the chain of command is, Jesus => the Bible => Christian.
 

ding

Member
After Christ: then Plurality of Elders/ then deacons

in my church : the teaching pastor (the one who usually gives the Sermon) is not the head : He is under the authority of the Elders
In the city where I live there are over 50 different Christian churches and they are not all teaching the exact same thing regarding the Christian faith. So if I were to leave the Catholic church how would I decide on which one to go to?
 

mica

Well-known member
In the city where I live there are over 50 different Christian churches and they are not all teaching the exact same thing regarding the Christian faith. So if I were to leave the Catholic church how would I decide on which one to go to?
how do you know they're Christian churches? because the word Christian is part of the church name or they claim to be Christion doesn't mean they are.

what do they teach that is different from each other?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
In the city where I live there are over 50 different Christian churches and they are not all teaching the exact same thing regarding the Christian faith. So if I were to leave the Catholic church how would I decide on which one to go to?
are you a Catholic who has never read the bible?
Are you a complete blank slate?
You wouldn't know if a statue of Mother Earth is wrong?
You're not sure how God feels about homosexual marriages?
You don't if the Bible says the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are God: yet God is One.
You don't know if Hell is real?
You don't know Jesus died on the Cross: not at the Last Supper?


I can go to any town and be comfortable worshipping the Lord, serving the Lord, and fellowshipping with believers in any Sola Scriptura practicing church.
I will reject any church that places the doctrines of men over the authority of Scripture:
That is why I left the Methodist Church
There are more that 100 churches with 15 miles of me: it took very little time to narrow it down to three.
Then it was just a matter of preferences

and BTW there is very little difference in beliefs between Sola Scriptura practicing churches
 
Last edited:

balshan

Well-known member
Going up as a Catholic I remember being taught the chain of authority within the Catholic church. Jesus was the head of the church and under Jesus was the Pope, and then the archbishop, then the bishop, the priest and then my parents. So I always viewed listening to the priest and my parents as listening to God.

The nCCs, however, tell me/us not to listen to the church but to listen to scripture, actually they say to listen to scripture alone. So if a Catholic, such as myself, were to leave the Catholic church what would the chain of authority be within the Christian faith? Jesus I would assume would be the head of the church but who or what would be under Jesus?
One should check whether what is being taught aligns with scripture.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
So the chain of authority is Jesus then scripture and then the Christian?
not any Christian:
as a member of my church: I have agreed to submit to authority of my church leadership.

I have not agreed to submit to the authority of leaders in a different church.
 

balshan

Well-known member
So the chain of authority is Jesus then scripture and then the Christian?
I agree there can be some chain within a church but you are responsible to know Jesus, know scripture and to understand whether you are hearing the truth. I mean I was sitting in one service the pastor said he was more responsible because if he went off the rails, we would follow. He got upset when asked what I thought. I said I disagree we have it in black and white that we are not to commit adultery, so if he did so we do not have to follow. You see you never blindly follow any person,
 

ding

Member
I agree there can be some chain within a church but you are responsible to know Jesus, know scripture and to understand whether you are hearing the truth. I mean I was sitting in one service the pastor said he was more responsible because if he went off the rails, we would follow. He got upset when asked what I thought. I said I disagree we have it in black and white that we are not to commit adultery, so if he did so we do not have to follow. You see you never blindly follow any person,
Thanks for your response. Do you believe your pastor's authority comes from God or from man?

As a Catholic I believe that the authority of the Pope comes from Jesus and not from us. As such the burden rest on the shoulders of Jesus, (as scripture says it does) and not on us. My trust is entirely on Jesus to provide us with the leader he wants us to have.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Thanks for your response. Do you believe your pastor's authority comes from God or from man?

As a Catholic I believe that the authority of the Pope comes from Jesus and not from us. As such the burden rest on the shoulders of Jesus, (as scripture says it does) and not on us. My trust is entirely on Jesus to provide us with the leader he wants us to have.
I think a person who is saved is called by God, others are called by ego. I disagree with the pope getting authority from God, it implies that God is responsible for all those evil popes. Let us be honest I was taught that the Holy Spirit selected the pope but latter on found out it was a college of cardinals and they have their own political agendas. God is not involved at all.
 

ding

Member
I think a person who is saved is called by God, others are called by ego. I disagree with the pope getting authority from God, it implies that God is responsible for all those evil popes. Let us be honest I was taught that the Holy Spirit selected the pope but latter on found out it was a college of cardinals and they have their own political agendas. God is not involved at all.
I disagree with you. I believe that Jesus did give authority to the Pope.

You didn't answer my question:

Do you believe your pastor's authority comes from God or from man?
 
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