Changes in the RCC's teachings

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
So, the RCC Jesus — despite His name — and being killed repeatedly, is incapable of saving His people to the uttermost, despite their confessions (along with the priest's absolution), their attendance at the mass, other good deeds, and Last Rites before death. They do all this and must still pay for their own sins after death. Sad.
That is why their Jesus stayed on the Cross, as the real One is risen Lord, and able to save to the uttermost all he saved!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Then why do Catholics not believe Paul when he writes how we receive salvation? Where does Paul teach us about Purgatory, or Mary's IC, PV, or Assumption? Where does he teach about popes?

As for what Luther wrote, you would best ask James Swan as he would be in a better position to know why Luther wrote what he did, and in more context. But my guess is, Luther was using great hyperbole to demonstrate that nothing can separate us from Jesus Christ, not even the grossest sin, if one truly repents. Only one sin is unforgivable and that is the sin of refusing to believe in and trust in Jesus Christ fully for salvation, great and free.
paul in romans, inspired, stated what can seperate us from the love of God in christ towards us? Zilch!
 

JoeT

Active member
We are not saved by water baptism, where did rome get Infant baptismal regeneration heresy from?
My question was, "A person that is baptized cannot, thou he would, lose his salvation by any sins however grievous, unless he refuses to believe. For no sins can damn him but unbelief alone. [Luther, The Babylonian Captivity]. Where did Luther get this?" Your response doesn't seem to address this, although I'll be happy to address it.

JoeT
 

JoeT

Active member
Then why do Catholics not believe Paul when he writes how we receive salvation? Where does Paul teach us about Purgatory, or Mary's IC, PV, or Assumption? Where does he teach about popes?
Catholics do believe what St. Paul teaches, the problem is it isn't the same novelty Protestants have developed. St. Paul didn't need to teach assumption, it's likely Mary hadn't been assumed into heaven at that time, secondly he doesn't breach the topic of Mary's immaculate conception or her perpetual virginity. St. Paul does indeed teach about purgatory, e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:14–15 a purgation of impurities.
As for what Luther wrote, you would best ask James Swan as he would be in a better position to know why Luther wrote what he did, and in more context. But my guess is, Luther was using great hyperbole to demonstrate that nothing can separate us from Jesus Christ, not even the grossest sin, if one truly repents. Only one sin is unforgivable and that is the sin of refusing to believe in and trust in Jesus Christ fully for salvation, great and free.
If nothing can separate one from Jesus why do Protestants sin? Isn't the act of sinning a separation? Or, do you believe like Luther, once one says "I believe" he no longer sins regardless of the act - what happened to Jim Jones? Or, do you believe that once one says "I believe" every act is that of an automaton which of course is not sin because the act is originated by another - wouldn't that make God a sinner?

JoeT
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Catholics do believe what St. Paul teaches, the problem is it isn't the same novelty Protestants have developed. St. Paul didn't need to teach assumption, it's likely Mary hadn't been assumed into heaven at that time, secondly he doesn't breach the topic of Mary's immaculate conception or her perpetual virginity. St. Paul does indeed teach about purgatory, e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:14–15 a purgation of impurities.

If nothing can separate one from Jesus why do Protestants sin? Isn't the act of sinning a separation? Or, do you believe like Luther, once one says "I believe" he no longer sins regardless of the act - what happened to Jim Jones? Or, do you believe that once one says "I believe" every act is that of an automaton which of course is not sin because the act is originated by another - wouldn't that make God a sinner?

JoeT
Rome denied pauline Justification at Trent!
 

balshan

Well-known member
Catholics do believe what St. Paul teaches, the problem is it isn't the same novelty Protestants have developed. St. Paul didn't need to teach assumption, it's likely Mary hadn't been assumed into heaven at that time, secondly he doesn't breach the topic of Mary's immaculate conception or her perpetual virginity. St. Paul does indeed teach about purgatory, e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:14–15 a purgation of impurities.

If nothing can separate one from Jesus why do Protestants sin? Isn't the act of sinning a separation? Or, do you believe like Luther, once one says "I believe" he no longer sins regardless of the act - what happened to Jim Jones? Or, do you believe that once one says "I believe" every act is that of an automaton which of course is not sin because the act is originated by another - wouldn't that make God a sinner?

JoeT
You need to understand repentance. Not the RCC version but the real biblical repentance. If sin separates us from God why do RCs keep sinning. Why do they ignore scriptures about do not eat with a brother and sister who commits sins eg sexual sin. Think of how many times those abusive priest said communion, held the host with dirty hands went to confession came out and repeated the sin. You love Jim Jones but you institution is the same as Jim Jones they drink the cool aid of you can sin and sin boldly because you can go to confession, last rites, purgatory and still make it to heaven. RCs blindly follow the false teachings of its pope and his cronies. Neither lot is saved.

RCs mitigate sin from mortal to venial and now you do not even need to confess venial sins. You make me laugh when you use the tu quoque fallacy. It does not justify your institution false teachings, or evil actions. That does not make the sins of your institution right.

Of course your institution does not follow Paul's teachings, it ignores 1 Cor 5:11 do not eat with so called brothers, it ignores the requirements he lists in Tim and Titus for leaders, it ignores his teachings that works do not save Eph 2:9 , you ignore Eph 5:11 about have nothing to do with darkness but expose it. It even ignores the teachings of Peter.

No apostle taught about the assumption because it didn't happen. Their wrote after Mary died and before the Temple was destroyed. How long did it take for Mary to be assumed. Straight away, 10 years after death, 100 years after death which is what you are implying?????
 

balshan

Well-known member
Yes, correct------which is exactly why Purgatory is possible.

If Christ had did not accomplish salvation on the cross, our purification in this life or the next would not be possible and we would all go to Hell.
No purification in the next.

Heb 9:27 is clear after death, judgement no in between purification stops.

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
 

mica

Well-known member
Catholics do believe what St. Paul teaches, the problem is it isn't the same novelty Protestants have developed. St. Paul didn't need to teach assumption, it's likely Mary hadn't been assumed into heaven at that time, secondly he doesn't breach the topic of Mary's immaculate conception or her perpetual virginity. St. Paul does indeed teach about purgatory, e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:14–15 a purgation of impurities.
this isn't about sin, it's about works. this has been explained on here numerous times - many, many times. those who aren't His, have no works in Him.

rewards are given to believers, not unbelievers. Paul is speaking to believers.


in all the years we've discussed this no catholic has been bothered to look up rewards and crowns? and then you claim to read and understand what you read in scripture? you're only fooling yourself, not believers and not God.

He forgives the sins of those who are His and confess to Him with a heart that is repentant.

1 Cor 3.14-15

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If nothing can separate one from Jesus why do Protestants sin? Isn't the act of sinning a separation? Or, do you believe like Luther, once one says "I believe" he no longer sins regardless of the act - what happened to Jim Jones? Or, do you believe that once one says "I believe" every act is that of an automaton which of course is not sin because the act is originated by another - wouldn't that make God a sinner?

JoeT
are all those you call Protestant believers?

do you think Jim Jones was a believer?
 

balshan

Well-known member
this isn't about sin, it's about works. this has been explained on here numerous times - many, many times. those who aren't His, have no works in Him.

rewards are given to believers, not unbelievers. Paul is speaking to believers.


in all the years we've discussed this no catholic has been bothered to look up rewards and crowns? and then you claim to read and understand what you read in scripture? you're only fooling yourself, not believers and not God.

He forgives the sins of those who are His and confess to Him with a heart that is repentant.

1 Cor 3.14-15

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


are all those you call Protestant believers?

do you think Jim Jones was a believer?
You are correct, it has nothing to do with purgatory at all. Jim Jones was never a believer.
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
Catholics do believe what St. Paul teaches, the problem is it isn't the same novelty Protestants have developed. St. Paul didn't need to teach assumption, it's likely Mary hadn't been assumed into heaven at that time, secondly he doesn't breach the topic of Mary's immaculate conception or her perpetual virginity. St. Paul does indeed teach about purgatory, e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:14–15 a purgation of impurities.

If nothing can separate one from Jesus why do Protestants sin? Isn't the act of sinning a separation? Or, do you believe like Luther, once one says "I believe" he no longer sins regardless of the act - what happened to Jim Jones? Or, do you believe that once one says "I believe" every act is that of an automaton which of course is not sin because the act is originated by another - wouldn't that make God a sinner?

JoeT
No Paul doesn't teach purgation of impurities of the believer. He speaks of "the Day" where a person's works after becoming a believer will be examined and judged regarding rewards-- not salvation.

Here is the scripture in context.
1 Cor 3:11-15
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
NKJV

What is the "work" Joe? It is that which follows salvation (see Ephesians 2:8-10). We see in Revelation the eyes of Jesus are a flame of fire, examining and seeing through all the garbage. There is no torment going on here. No mini-hell or whatever it is being called now. Jesus burns through all the garbage we thought was important and looks at the heart and what is lasting.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I think it is a waste of money. There is no purgatory that is a myth but RCC makes a lot of money out of it. Mary gets more glory for pulling people out of this myth. It is good myth just in case you cannot trust Jesus.

I would rather trust Jesus than a myth.
Amen, sister! One can't go wrong trusting in Jesus Christ, instead of Mary and the RCC!
 
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