Cheap Grace faith alone

ReverendRV

Well-known member
So my old pastor/ neighbor who overseas the seminary doctoral program ( knows fluently Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek ) and gave me a copy of his doctoral dissertation on James from 1978 where he taught NT Greek at FTS . His mentor was Dr Robert Gundry. We talked the other day about James / Paul and I told him my view and he agreed with me that Fruit/ Works in Jesus, Paul and James are different ways of saying the same thing. There was no dissension . That came from theologians not the Apostle’s.
Paul and James agreed...

Justification belongs to Faith Alone, Works we are Created for/Born Again for belong to Sanctification Alone. The distinction between the Categories of Works must remain...
 
G

guest1

Guest
Paul and James agreed...

Justification belongs to Faith Alone, Works we are Created for belong to Sanctification Alone. The distinction between Categories of Works must remain...
It’s like faith / repentance. Two sides of the same coin they go together . The same with faith / works . Paul and James both say that in their writing . So does John in his epistle numerous times .
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Paul and James agreed...

Justification belongs to Faith Alone, Works we are Created for/Born Again for belong to Sanctification Alone. The distinction between the Categories of Works must remain...
Unedited...

Questions about the Bible by Brother C.W. Miller #57

James 2:
8; If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

There was a time when Jesus had commissioned several disciples and he was instructing them in the way of the ministry. During this time a lawyer interjected himself and asked Jesus how to inherit Eternal Life, this is what was said; “And behold, a lawyer stood up to put Jesus to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" The lawyer answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." And Jesus said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live." But the lawyer, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"”

When the Apostle James taught about loving your neighbor, he was speaking about not showing partiality; which the lawyer had in spades! Jesus answered the lawyers question with the example of a foreigner who helped an injured man on a road. Jesus also used the examples of a priest and a Levite who did not stop to help the man. The lawyer would know that if this scenario ever occurred, Jesus would be right because they would not touch anything unclean. Have you ever helped someone when they were in dire straits? Most people can answer yes to this; but none can say that they kept the Law of God by doing this! But you ask, “Hasn’t the Apostle Paul said that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills the Law?” Yes he did; but only a Prince of Heaven can fulfill this Royal Law of God. A Pauper has only the commoners Law which was given to Sinners; the Ten Commandments. These were given to show us that we are guilty, and that we are outlaws who will be locked away in a devil’s Hell for all Eternity…

The Baptist Theologian John Gill said this about the Royal Law; “Which is the law of love to men, without distinction of rich and poor, high and low, bond and free; and is so called, because it is the law of the King of kings, it is the law of Christ, who is King of saints; and because it is a principal law, the chief of laws; as love to God is the sum of the first and great commandment in the law, and may be called the king of laws; so love to the neighbour is the second and next unto it, and may very well bear the name of the queen of laws, and so has royalty in it; and indeed this last is said to be the fulfilling of the law, and it is also submitted to, and obeyed by such who are made kings and priests to God; and that in a royal manner, with a princely spirit, willingly, and with all readiness:”

What we need is to be made Kings and priests of God! There is only one way to receive this Coronation and that is by Gods Grace thru Faith in the risen Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior; the King of Kings! Gain your commission from him and you will be saved from your Sins; you will be spiritually born again with a Prince’s birthright! Jesus will grant it that you rule and reign with him in his kingdom forever in Eternity. You will now be able to keep the Royal Law of God because you are under the jurisdiction of Heaven as a citizen who can exercise your new found rights. Give up your life as a dying Pauper and exchange it for the life of an everlasting Prince…

Revelations 1:5-6; and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
So my old pastor/ neighbor who overseas the seminary doctoral program ( knows fluently Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek ) and gave me a copy of his doctoral dissertation on James from 1978 where he taught NT Greek at FTS . His mentor was Dr Robert Gundry. We talked the other day about James / Paul and I told him my view and he agreed with me that Fruit/ Works in Jesus, Paul and James are different ways of saying the same thing. There was no dissension . That came from theologians not the Apostle’s.
I do believe that they agree. The trick is to remember that James (writing before Paul) and Paul wrote to different contexts that faced different struggles and opposition. I can't wait to dig deeper into this.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Unedited...

Questions about the Bible by Brother C.W. Miller #57

James 2:
8; If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

There was a time when Jesus had commissioned several disciples and he was instructing them in the way of the ministry. During this time a lawyer interjected himself and asked Jesus how to inherit Eternal Life, this is what was said; “And behold, a lawyer stood up to put Jesus to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" The lawyer answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." And Jesus said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live." But the lawyer, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"”

When the Apostle James taught about loving your neighbor, he was speaking about not showing partiality; which the lawyer had in spades! Jesus answered the lawyers question with the example of a foreigner who helped an injured man on a road. Jesus also used the examples of a priest and a Levite who did not stop to help the man. The lawyer would know that if this scenario ever occurred, Jesus would be right because they would not touch anything unclean. Have you ever helped someone when they were in dire straits? Most people can answer yes to this; but none can say that they kept the Law of God by doing this! But you ask, “Hasn’t the Apostle Paul said that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills the Law?” Yes he did; but only a Prince of Heaven can fulfill this Royal Law of God. A Pauper has only the commoners Law which was given to Sinners; the Ten Commandments. These were given to show us that we are guilty, and that we are outlaws who will be locked away in a devil’s Hell for all Eternity…

The Baptist Theologian John Gill said this about the Royal Law; “Which is the law of love to men, without distinction of rich and poor, high and low, bond and free; and is so called, because it is the law of the King of kings, it is the law of Christ, who is King of saints; and because it is a principal law, the chief of laws; as love to God is the sum of the first and great commandment in the law, and may be called the king of laws; so love to the neighbour is the second and next unto it, and may very well bear the name of the queen of laws, and so has royalty in it; and indeed this last is said to be the fulfilling of the law, and it is also submitted to, and obeyed by such who are made kings and priests to God; and that in a royal manner, with a princely spirit, willingly, and with all readiness:”

What we need is to be made Kings and priests of God! There is only one way to receive this Coronation and that is by Gods Grace thru Faith in the risen Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior; the King of Kings! Gain your commission from him and you will be saved from your Sins; you will be spiritually born again with a Prince’s birthright! Jesus will grant it that you rule and reign with him in his kingdom forever in Eternity. You will now be able to keep the Royal Law of God because you are under the jurisdiction of Heaven as a citizen who can exercise your new found rights. Give up your life as a dying Pauper and exchange it for the life of an everlasting Prince…

Revelations 1:5-6; and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
The point I wanted to make with this Gospel Tract is that Saint James says if we keep the second Tablet of the Law, we're doing well. If he would have said when we keep the first Tablet we're doing well, he would be saying more than Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount; which didn't include keeping the Sabbath. When I wrote these early Gospel Tracts, they were for my SDA friends who loved keeping the Sabbath. I could tell them that according to Saint James, I was doing well...

I will never be Justified by any Work of the Law; Sola Fide...
 

Predestined

Well-known member
Unedited...

Questions about the Bible by Brother C.W. Miller #57

James 2:
8; If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

There was a time when Jesus had commissioned several disciples and he was instructing them in the way of the ministry. During this time a lawyer interjected himself and asked Jesus how to inherit Eternal Life, this is what was said; “And behold, a lawyer stood up to put Jesus to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" The lawyer answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." And Jesus said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live." But the lawyer, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"”

When the Apostle James taught about loving your neighbor, he was speaking about not showing partiality; which the lawyer had in spades! Jesus answered the lawyers question with the example of a foreigner who helped an injured man on a road. Jesus also used the examples of a priest and a Levite who did not stop to help the man. The lawyer would know that if this scenario ever occurred, Jesus would be right because they would not touch anything unclean. Have you ever helped someone when they were in dire straits? Most people can answer yes to this; but none can say that they kept the Law of God by doing this! But you ask, “Hasn’t the Apostle Paul said that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills the Law?” Yes he did; but only a Prince of Heaven can fulfill this Royal Law of God. A Pauper has only the commoners Law which was given to Sinners; the Ten Commandments. These were given to show us that we are guilty, and that we are outlaws who will be locked away in a devil’s Hell for all Eternity…

The Baptist Theologian John Gill said this about the Royal Law; “Which is the law of love to men, without distinction of rich and poor, high and low, bond and free; and is so called, because it is the law of the King of kings, it is the law of Christ, who is King of saints; and because it is a principal law, the chief of laws; as love to God is the sum of the first and great commandment in the law, and may be called the king of laws; so love to the neighbour is the second and next unto it, and may very well bear the name of the queen of laws, and so has royalty in it; and indeed this last is said to be the fulfilling of the law, and it is also submitted to, and obeyed by such who are made kings and priests to God; and that in a royal manner, with a princely spirit, willingly, and with all readiness:”

What we need is to be made Kings and priests of God! There is only one way to receive this Coronation and that is by Gods Grace thru Faith in the risen Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior; the King of Kings! Gain your commission from him and you will be saved from your Sins; you will be spiritually born again with a Prince’s birthright! Jesus will grant it that you rule and reign with him in his kingdom forever in Eternity. You will now be able to keep the Royal Law of God because you are under the jurisdiction of Heaven as a citizen who can exercise your new found rights. Give up your life as a dying Pauper and exchange it for the life of an everlasting Prince…

Revelations 1:5-6; and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
We have a commission from Jesus, best news I've heard all day.
 
G

guest1

Guest
The point I wanted to make with this Gospel Tract is that Saint James says if we keep the second Tablet of the Law, we're doing well. If he would have said when we keep the first Tablet we're doing well, he would be saying more than Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount; which didn't include keeping the Sabbath. When I wrote these early Gospel Tracts, they were for my SDA friends who loved keeping the Sabbath. I could tell them that according to Saint James, I was doing well...

I will never be Justified by any Work of the Law; Sola Fide...
Not even the royal law of love ?

Do you believe our works will be judged ?
 

Predestined

Well-known member
Not even the royal law of love ?

Do you believe our works will be judged ?
It all depends on what you mean by works. Now the work of love you did with your cousin Danny will be judged as far as the judgment of what you did with your salvation. What you did With what Jesus gave you. You shared it. And you'll get a righteous judgment. I don't know how you would be judged on how much we love our brothers and sisters or our enemies. Weather it would be like on a scale of 1 to 100 or the fact that we tried to do the best we could. What does it say about God judges are hearts?

The Bible tells us that God judges the intents of the hearts (see Hebrews 4:14). If the intents of our heart honor Him, He encourages us to continue with them. If our intents are misguided, because He loves us, He’ll correct us.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Not even the royal law of love ?

Do you believe our works will be judged ?
Sure, our Works will be Judged; but we'll enter Heaven as through Fire without them when we have Jesus Christ as our Foundation. Our Born Again Works are Judged for our Heavenly reward...
 
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guest1

Guest
Sure, our Works will be Judged; but we'll enter as through Fire without them when we have Jesus Christ as our Foundation.
1 Cor 13
If I speak in the tongues a of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, b but do not have love, I gain nothing.
 
G

guest1

Guest
It all depends on what you mean by works. Now the work of love you did with your cousin Danny will be judged as far as the judgment of what you did with your salvation. What you did With what Jesus gave you. You shared it. And you'll get a righteous judgment. I don't know how you would be judged on how much we love our brothers and sisters or our enemies. Weather it would be like on a scale of 1 to 100 or the fact that we tried to do the best we could. What does it say about God judges are hearts?

The Bible tells us that God judges the intents of the hearts (see Hebrews 4:14). If the intents of our heart honor Him, He encourages us to continue with them. If our intents are misguided, because He loves us, He’ll correct us.
You do believe a faith without works is a dead faith right ?

Like no fruit, no root.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
1 Cor 13
If I speak in the tongues a of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, b but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Seriously love is where it's at, if we all did that then we could enjoy discussing things on these boards.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
1 Cor 13
If I speak in the tongues a of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, b but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Amen. Saint James' Royal Law is to Love thy Neighbor. I am doing well...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Be blessed...

The bottom line is; we cannot lose focus that we're Justified in the sight of God through Faith Alone. We can't even give an inch...

Our Post-Salvific Works are the Fruit of the Vine. I think this discussion can be ended quickly by keeping the Categories of Works distinct; no Communication of Properties from Work to Work...
 
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G

guest1

Guest
Be blessed...

The bottom line is; we cannot lose focus that we're Justified in the sight of God through Faith Alone. We can't even give an inch...

Our Post-Salvific Works are the Fruit of the Vine. I think this discussion can be ended quickly by keeping the Categories of Work distinct; no Communication of Properties from Work to Work...
I will leave you with this for now .

James 2
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds,and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God.Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

hope this helps !!!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I will leave you with this for now .

James 2
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds,and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God.Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

hope this helps !!!
Saint James is the one who says I'm doing Well. You are right, we agree a lot. I think my Gospel Tract is the perfect answer to anyone who wants to be Justified by Works; like my SDA friends...

Remember; Saint James also agrees with Saint Paul. To insist we stay in James, is to admit that Saint James trumps Saint Paul; and that they do not actually agree. When your Fundamental is that Saint James and Saint Paul agree, this means you accept that Saint James believes we're Saved by Grace through Faith, not by Works lest we boast; and that we're Created for Good Works which God prepared in advance for us to do. This means Saint James also believes in two Categories of Works...

I believe that the first Category of "not by Works" belong to Justification through Faith Alone, and the second Category of "Works we're Created for" belong to the Category of Sanctification Alone. Without Holiness, no one will see the LORD; this is what Saint James focuses on. But of course, Christ shall lose None; thus the Justified are Sanctified, and the Sanctified are Glorified...
 
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