Chesterton on the Fall

[treeplanter]

Then show me saying or even implying that.

You are a Christian
Christians believe that EVERY HUMAN BEING is a sinner in desperate need of Jesus Christ's salvific grace

If being a sinner
{due an inherited corrupt nature}
is not a defect then I would like to know what is...

To rescue us from the power of sin, and bring us into His Kingdom of Love. Certainly not because babies are defective.

That sin holds power over us IS the defect, stiggy!
DUH!!

 

[stiggy wiggy]

You are a Christian
Christians believe that EVERY HUMAN BEING is a sinner in desperate need of Jesus Christ's salvific grace

No. Newborn babies do not sin. Name one sin some baby you know has committed. Were you hurt in the past by a baby spiting up on you? Is that why you look on babies as disgusting and defective? I assure you, it was not intentional. Get over it.

DUH!!

 

[treeplanter]

No. Newborn babies do not sin. Name one sin some baby you know has committed.

The 'sin' is simply having been born, stiggy

Again, the Christian position is that EVERY HUMAN BEING, due sin, is in need of Jesus Christ

The question, then, is this:

Is our sin due an individual free will choice to sin
OR
is it due a race wide inherited nature that inevitably compels us to sin?

 

[Caroljeen]

The 'sin' is simply having been born, stiggy

Again, the Christian position is that EVERY HUMAN BEING, due sin, is in need of Jesus Christ

The question, then, is this:

Is our sin due an individual free will choice to sin
OR
is it due a race wide inherited nature that inevitably compels us to sin?

You need to discuss that with someone who believes it, like a Roman Catholic. Someone who baptizes babies. I don't believe that doctrine so your argument is a strawman to me.

 

[treeplanter]

You need to discuss that with someone who believes it, like a Roman Catholic. Someone who baptizes babies. I don't believe that doctrine so your argument is a strawman to me.

You don't believe that we are sinners?
You don't believe that we need Jesus?

 

[Caroljeen]

You don't believe that we are sinners?
You don't believe that we need Jesus?

I don't believe we were born sinners.
Young children before the age of accountability (the knowledge of good and evil) cannot sin. They don't know the difference between right and wrong. You need to find a Calvinist or a Catholic for your argument to hold any weight.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

The 'sin' is simply having been born, stiggy

So why not provide a biblical verse to us stating that being born is a sin? Or would you like to revert to your usual:

"Well uh, maybe I can't find a Bible verse to back up my belief that being born is a sin, but that's what Christianity teaches."

And when you fail to back THAT up would you like to change it to:

"Uh, I mean Christendom, yeah, that's it, Christendom."

The question, then, is this:

Is our sin due an individual free will choice to sin

STOP! Say no more. I'll go with that one. We choose to sin because we choose to sin.

 

[CrowCross]

How so?
To this day, every single human being on the face of the earth possesses a corrupt nature that inevitably compels sin

Forgiveness. A simple word you don't understand.....For Adam and Eve there was also a promise.

 

[treeplanter]

We choose to sin because we choose to sin.

Over 100 billion human beings to have walked the earth and the only one who ever chose a life of sinlessness is Jesus Christ?
Sure, stigs, sure...

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Over 100 billion human beings to have walked the earth and the only one who ever chose a life of sinlessness is Jesus Christ?

AMEN! Not since Caiaphas in John 11:50 has a hater of Jesus so unwittingly suggested the truth about Him.

 

[treeplanter]

AMEN! Not since Caiaphas in John 11:50 has a hater of Jesus so unwittingly suggested the truth about Him.

It is beyond ridiculous to claim that every single human being {save for Jesus} made the same choice to eschew a life of sinlessness

We 'choose' to forgo sinlessness because we possess corrupt natures which inevitably compel sin

Furthermore, we are born with these corrupt natures because God has willed it
And I don't give a rat's *** if there is no bible verse explicitly stating this
It is implied throughout the whole of scripture

 

[stiggy wiggy]

It is beyond ridiculous to claim that every single human being {save for Jesus} made the same choice to eschew a life of sinlessness

Not only NOT ridiculous, but considering the fact that He was God Incarnate, it's quite to be expected.

And I don't give a rat's *** if there is no bible verse explicitly stating this

Of course you don't, since you make it up. No need to back it up, eh?

It is implied throughout the whole of scripture

Then show me where.

 

[Furion]

It is beyond ridiculous to claim that every single human being {save for Jesus} made the same choice to eschew a life of sinlessness

Poor tree, he doesn't understand law is law, and forgiveness is available for any sin common to man.

So you are caught in sin, ok. It's why Christ came, for mercy and forgiveness.

That you are so upset you can't be sinless is lol.

 

[treeplanter]

Not only NOT ridiculous, but considering the fact that He was God Incarnate, it's quite to be expected.

And yet Christians make over the idea that Jesus Christ was fully human AGAIN and AGAIN!

Which is it, stiggy - is Christ 'all that' because He chose sinlessness as a human being or as a god?

 

[treeplanter]

And yet Christians

 

[treeplanter]

That you are so upset you can't be sinless is lol.

God demands sinlessness
God created us incapable of sinlessness

Yeah, that's laugh out loud funny, Jimmy!!!

 

[treeplanter]

Forgiveness. A simple word you don't understand

Forgiveness?

What a crock!

I 'forgive' you for being what I made you to be is NOT forgiveness!!

 

[stiggy wiggy]

And yet Christians make over the idea that Jesus Christ was fully human AGAIN and AGAIN!

Make over? He was. What do you mean "yet?"

Which is it, stiggy - is Christ 'all that' because He chose sinlessness as a human being or as a god?

He was both. You claim to be some hot-shot anti-Christian polemicist and you don't even know basic Christianity 101?

 

[Furion]

God demands sinlessness
God created us incapable of sinlessness

Yeah, that's laugh out loud funny, Jimmy!!!

In your case eschewing forgiveness and mercy is your stupidity.

The gospel is good news for the sinner who realizes they are a sinner.

It seems to be bad news for those who think themselves "good person's" with no need of saving.

It reminds me of children caught in the act but still in denial.

 

[CrowCross]

Forgiveness?

What a crock!

I 'forgive' you for being what I made you to be is NOT forgiveness!!

You're beyond ignorant...you've entered into the world of the deluded.