Our Lord's God
Well-known member
I beg to differ. Most people are reasonable.
Don't watch the news eh?
CARM is not a representative sample.
Oh I forgot. I know nothing about the world outside of CARM.
I beg to differ. Most people are reasonable.
CARM is not a representative sample.
Neither are youI beg to differ. Most people are reasonable. CARM is not a representative sample.
Do you honestly think that the news portrays ordinary people living ordinary lives?Don't watch the news eh?
Sadly, for some people, that would be a true remark rather than an attempt at irony.Oh I forgot. I know nothing about the world outside of CARM.
Do you honestly think that the news portrays ordinary people living ordinary lives?
reasonable people prevail in most western liberal democracies.
Why should the US be any different? Admittedly, the US is fifty years at least behind everyone else in solving the abortion controversy, but it will come eventually.
Sadly, for some people, that would be a true remark rather than an attempt at irony.
The news and news casters may well be nuts, driven as they are by the need to get as many people as possible to watch their haemaroid cream commercial.The news, the internet, et al, give us countless ways to observe ordinary people the majority of whom are half nuts esp. in the US.
You must live in a nutty neighbourhood. In real life virtually every person I meet is reasonable.That's quite a nice sentiment you have there but the reality doesn't bear it out.
I have certainly tried to be so in this conversation, since you started it by bewailing the lack of reason in the abortion debate. A sentiment I agree with by the way. You presumably consider yourself to be reasonable, as do I. Can we have a reasonable conversation about the issues raised by abortion? I am quite willing to do so, and also to let others judge where the reasonable voice lies. Do you dare do that, or is sniping all you are up for?Take yourself for example. You apparently seem to think you are quite reasonable.
Well we cant judge what you have thought. We can judge what you have done as unreasonable though. Of course you disagree, but there we are.I have certainly tried to be so in this conversation,
Temujin is a reasonable person, yes.Take yourself for example. You apparently seem to think you are quite reasonable.
So Temujin isn't reasonable then. For example, he puts posters on ignore.Humility, and a willingness to honestly entertain ideas he may not be familiar with (or immediately accept) is.
Despite what some of its citizens obviously believe, the US is not "most Western countries".Obviously not since certain states in the US have all but banned abortion.
Point taken but in the UK abortion limits were discussed last year in Parliament, as they have been elsewhere in Europe.Despite what some of its citizens obviously believe, the US is not "most Western countries".
The news and news casters may well be nuts, driven as they are by the need to get as many people as possible to watch their haemaroid cream commercial.
You must live in a nutty neighbourhood. In real life virtually every person I meet is reasonable.
I have certainly tried to be so in this conversation, since you started it by bewailing the lack of reason in the abortion debate. A sentiment I agree with by the way. You presumably consider yourself to be reasonable, as do I. Can we have a reasonable conversation about the issues raised by abortion? I am quite willing to do so, and also to let others judge where the reasonable voice lies. Do you dare do that, or is sniping all you are up for?
I'll take that as a no, you don't want, or are not capable of a reasonable conversation. Colour me surprised.That's what all nutty people think.
I'll take that as a no, you don't want, or are not capable of a reasonable conversation. Colour me surprised.
That's what I said.You should take that as me deciding there is no hope of reasonable conversation with you.
That's what I said.
Lol! So do I.I rest my case.
... with the case being that you're the thing you accuse others of, yes.I rest my case.
It is important to note that those who call themselves "pro-choice" tend not to really be "pro-choice." When you ask them whether they support one's right to "choose" to keep and bear arms for the purposes of self-defense, all of a sudden, they aren't for "choice." "No. Guns are bad. We have to get them off the street" they say."My Body My Choice"
Is this a right for all women?
In every day society we do have the ability to chose, but we can forfeit that ability when we make poor choices, when we choose foolishly.
If I choose to steal, then I get arrested and if I'm put in jail I lose that ability to chose because of my foolish choices.
And it's not even a social construct but "written into" nature. If I choose to walk in front of a bus, I lose my ability to make other choices.
It's also something that takes time to witness. For example, if a person gets drunk, they may get away with it. But after a while consequences do arise.
So two things with this. 1. Are there things that if a person chooses poorly then they DON'T lose the ability to make future choices?
2. Should this apply even in some cases to abortion. Where under certain circumstances a woman should not have the ability to chose because they are foolish and make bad choices? If not, why does it seem like this topic is exempt when so many other scenarios aren't?
I hope that I was clear. If there's anything that wasn't please let me know.
Why doesn't the child have a "choice" in the matter? Why should a woman get to murder their unborn children at will, sir?Sadly, no. It should be.
And----I think the point is that you cannot have "choice" without "consequence." This is something a lot of abortion supporters seem not to grasp. They want "choice," but they do not want "consequence."Yes, and?
Correct--the point is that if you get caught---you can get arrested and loose your freedom. This is because when you drive drunk, you put other people's lives on the line.If I'm understanding you correctly, then obviously yes. I can choose to drive drunk...a poor choice. I still get to make the choice the next day whether to go and collect my car from the tree I wrapped it around. I still get to choose whether to drive drunk the next night or not. I can choose to cheat on my wife...I still get to to choose the next day whether to admit it to her, conceal it, do it again...
But WHY does a woman have a fundamental right to murder her unborn child? Does a woman have the right to murder their born children? Then why should they have the right to murder their unborn children?The topic isn't exempt - anti-choicers just want to make it that way because of their desire to take rights away from women (and all the other reasons for being anti-choice, none of them good).
Correct: when behaviors are deemed harmful for society, those behaviors tend to be illegal.Choice is taken away by society because of some perceived benefit to society - removing a an offender's choices by confining them, for example, is deemed to benefit society as a whole.
Probably not. Though some would argue--me being one of them--that people need to be allowed to face the consequences of their actions. For example--the left tends to see criminals as victims--hence, they make excuses for criminals and defend them, rather than allowing them to face the consequences for their actions. When people do not have to face the consequences of their poor choices, they are enabled to continue to make those choices.Only in a rigidly Darwinian society, and only where the choice's consequences cannot be mitigated. If I walk in front of a bus but don't die immediately, society swoops in with measures to try to keep me alive.
100% "You made your bed..." societies... are there any?
That tends to be a different case because people who self-injure tend to have a mental disorder. In other words--their ability to choose--is compromised.Yes. Lots and lots of them.
Medical interventions for self-"inflicted" injuries/conditions, for one.
Well, we agree on something. No women should be forced to get pregnant. Any woman who does not want to get pregnant may choose not to get pregnant. Women have the right to choose. No woman who wants to be a mother should be forced to get pregnant and be a mother.No - IMO, under no circumstances should a person be forced to be pregnant when they don't wish to be.