Choice

radvermin

Active member
"My Body My Choice"
Is this a right for all women?
In every day society we do have the ability to chose, but we can forfeit that ability when we make poor choices, when we choose foolishly.
If I choose to steal, then I get arrested and if I'm put in jail I lose that ability to chose because of my foolish choices.

And it's not even a social construct but "written into" nature. If I choose to walk in front of a bus, I lose my ability to make other choices.
It's also something that takes time to witness. For example, if a person gets drunk, they may get away with it. But after a while consequences do arise.

So two things with this. 1. Are there things that if a person chooses poorly then they DON'T lose the ability to make future choices?
2. Should this apply even in some cases to abortion. Where under certain circumstances a woman should not have the ability to chose because they are foolish and make bad choices? If not, why does it seem like this topic is exempt when so many other scenarios aren't?

I hope that I was clear. If there's anything that wasn't please let me know.
 
"My Body My Choice"
Is this a right for all women?
In every day society we do have the ability to chose, but we can forfeit that ability when we make poor choices, when we choose foolishly.
If I choose to steal, then I get arrested and if I'm put in jail I lose that ability to chose because of my foolish choices.

And it's not even a social construct but "written into" nature. If I choose to walk in front of a bus, I lose my ability to make other choices.
It's also something that takes time to witness. For example, if a person gets drunk, they may get away with it. But after a while consequences do arise.

So two things with this. 1. Are there things that if a person chooses poorly then they DON'T lose the ability to make future choices?
2. Should this apply even in some cases to abortion. Where under certain circumstances a woman should not have the ability to chose because they are foolish and make bad choices? If not, why does it seem like this topic is exempt when so many other scenarios aren't?

I hope that I was clear. If there's anything that wasn't please let me know.
I married a ballerina. We went to a Halloween Party and she was pregnant and it showed. She wore a dance leotard
She is also an artist and wore a cute little sign "I should have danced all night"
 
"My Body My Choice"
Is this a right for all women?
Sadly, no. It should be.
In every day society we do have the ability to chose, but we can forfeit that ability when we make poor choices, when we choose foolishly.
If I choose to steal, then I get arrested and if I'm put in jail I lose that ability to chose because of my foolish choices. And it's not even a social construct but "written into" nature. If I choose to walk in front of a bus, I lose my ability to make other choices. It's also something that takes time to witness. For example, if a person gets drunk, they may get away with it. But after a while consequences do arise.
Yes, and?

So two things with this. 1. Are there things that if a person chooses poorly then they DON'T lose the ability to make future choices?
If I'm understanding you correctly, then obviously yes. I can choose to drive drunk...a poor choice. I still get to make the choice the next day whether to go and collect my car from the tree I wrapped it around. I still get to choose whether to drive drunk the next night or not. I can choose to cheat on my wife...I still get to to choose the next day whether to admit it to her, conceal it, do it again...

2. Should this apply even in some cases to abortion. Where under certain circumstances a woman should not have the ability to chose because they are foolish and make bad choices? If not, why does it seem like this topic is exempt when so many other scenarios aren't?
The topic isn't exempt - anti-choicers just want to make it that way because of their desire to take rights away from women (and all the other reasons for being anti-choice, none of them good).
 
Sadly, no. It should be.

Yes, and?


If I'm understanding you correctly, then obviously yes. I can choose to drive drunk...a poor choice. I still get to make the choice the next day whether to go and collect my car from the tree I wrapped it around. I still get to choose whether to drive drunk the next night or not. I can choose to cheat on my wife...I still get to to choose the next day whether to admit it to her, conceal it, do it again...


The topic isn't exempt - anti-choicers just want to make it that way because of their desire to take rights away from women (and all the other reasons for being anti-choice, none of them good).
Doesnt address the OP as far as I can see. You seem to be saying one CANT choose to drive drunk and increase the chance of killing someone but one CAN conceive and then kill someone.
 
"My Body My Choice"
Is this a right for all women?
In every day society we do have the ability to chose, but we can forfeit that ability when we make poor choices, when we choose foolishly.
If I choose to steal, then I get arrested and if I'm put in jail I lose that ability to chose because of my foolish choices.
Choice is taken away by society because of some perceived benefit to society - removing a an offender's choices by confining them, for example, is deemed to benefit society as a whole
And it's not even a social construct but "written into" nature. If I choose to walk in front of a bus, I lose my ability to make other choices.
Only in a rigidly Darwinian society, and only where the choice's consequences cannot be mitigated.
If I walk in front of a bus but don't die immediately, society swoops in with measures to try to keep me alive.

100% "You made your bed..." societies... are there any?
So two things with this. 1. Are there things that if a person chooses poorly then they DON'T lose the ability to make future choices?
Yes. Lots and lots of them.

Medical interventions for self-"inflicted" injuries/conditions, for one.
2. Should this apply even in some cases to abortion. Where under certain circumstances a woman should not have the ability to chose because they are foolish and make bad choices? If not, why does it seem like this topic is exempt when so many other scenarios aren't?
No - IMO, under no circumstances should a person be forced to be pregnant when they don't wish to be.
 
Choice is taken away by society because of some perceived benefit to society - removing a an offender's choices by confining them, for example, is deemed to benefit society as a whole

Only in a rigidly Darwinian society, and only where the choice's consequences cannot be mitigated.
If I walk in front of a bus but don't die immediately, society swoops in with measures to try to keep me alive.

100% "You made your bed..." societies... are there any?

Yes. Lots and lots of them.

Medical interventions for self-"inflicted" injuries/conditions, for one.

No - IMO, under no circumstances should a person be forced to be pregnant when they don't wish to be.
Your thinking is mentally deficient for the following reasons:
Firstly don't say 'person'. Only a woman can be pregnant, a man who calls himself a 'transwoman' is a man, so say woman and not 'person' because person covers all men and women and intersex people, but 'transwoman' is a lie.
Secondly, if a man and a woman have unprotected sex then they may conceive and the woman will be pregnant, so they can choose not to have sex. Conception isnt a choice, it will happen or not happen regardless of whether the man and woman choose it or not.
 
Your thinking is mentally deficient for the following reasons:
Firstly don't say 'person'. Only a woman can be pregnant, a man who calls himself a 'transwoman' is a man, so say woman and not 'person' because person covers all men and women and intersex people, but 'transwoman' is a lie.
Secondly, if a man and a woman have unprotected sex then they may conceive and the woman will be pregnant, so they can choose not to have sex. Conception isnt a choice, it will happen or not happen regardless of whether the man and woman choose it or not.
Your thinking is mentally deficient for the following reasons. Firstly, don't say "woman". A great many women cannot fall pregnant. Meanwhile there are people who are legally men who can be and are pregnant. Some of these have women as partners, some transwomen, some cis women. Therefore "pregnant person" is much more accurate than "woman", which is vague, possibly confusing and includes people who cannot be pregnant while excluding some who can.

Secondly, conception, whether expected,hoped for or dreaded is not the choice that is referred to. The choice is not whether or not to fall pregnant, but whether or not to stay pregnant. That is a choice that only the pregnant person can make.
 
Secondly, conception, whether expected,hoped for or dreaded is not the choice that is referred to. The choice is not whether or not to fall pregnant, but whether or not to stay pregnant.
Some people can't tell the difference between dealing with the problem, and preventing the problem.
 
Your thinking is mentally deficient for the following reasons. Firstly, don't say "woman". A great many women cannot fall pregnant. Meanwhile there are people who are legally men who can be and are pregnant. Some of these have women as partners, some transwomen, some cis women. Therefore "pregnant person" is much more accurate than "woman", which is vague, possibly confusing and includes people who cannot be pregnant while excluding some who can.

Secondly, conception, whether expected,hoped for or dreaded is not the choice that is referred to. The choice is not whether or not to fall pregnant, but whether or not to stay pregnant. That is a choice that only the pregnant person can make.
No. Only women can be pregnant. A woman
has XX chromosomes, female anatomy and female reproductive organs. Your thinking is mentally deficient and is a safeguarding issue. No such thing as trans and cis, only a woman can be pregnant.

Secondly one cant stay pregnant by choice it just happens, one cant choose to miscarry it just either happens or it doesnt.

Your thinking is mentally deficient.
 
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No. Only women can be pregnant. A woman
has XX chromosomes, female anatomy and female reproductive organs. Your thinking is mentally deficient and is a safeguarding issue. No such thing as trans and cis, only a woman can be pregnant.
On the one hand we have the accepted framework of the law, medicine, biology, sociology, psychiatry and politics. On the other we have your crackpot denial ism. You are wrong, plain and simple. Trans men and women have always existed, exist now and always will exist. All that has changed is a willingness by those in authority in all spheres of life, to treat them humanely and compassionately, while recognising their existence. You and your shuttered mind cannot deal with this fact. You obsess over it, because your failure is reinforced every day that passes. Trans people exist. Trans men, who are pregnant exist. Trans men who are pregnant are entitled to abortions, just as they are entitled to parental leave and pay. They will continue to exist whatever blethering you care to make regarding chromosomes.
 
On the one hand we have the accepted framework of the law, medicine, biology, sociology, psychiatry and politics. On the other we have your crackpot denial ism. You are wrong, plain and simple. Trans men and women have always existed, exist now and always will exist. All that has changed is a willingness by those in authority in all spheres of life, to treat them humanely and compassionately, while recognising their existence. You and your shuttered mind cannot deal with this fact. You obsess over it, because your failure is reinforced every day that passes. Trans people exist. Trans men, who are pregnant exist. Trans men who are pregnant are entitled to abortions, just as they are entitled to parental leave and pay. They will continue to exist whatever blethering you care to make regarding chromosomes.
On the one hand we have medicine and observable biology and on the other we have your mentally deficient delusion.
Only a woman can be pregnant and your cis cis trany trany trans trans words mean either nothing or an outright lie.
Chromosomes and anatomy determine biological sex, not what some people claim.
 
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On the one hand we have medicine and observable biology and on the other we have your mentally deficient delusion.
Wrong.
Only a woman can be pregnant
Wrong
and your cis cis trany trany trans trans words mean either nothing or an outright lie.
Your inability to understand, and unwillingness to accept reality, doesn't make it go away. You are wrong.
Chromosomes and anatomy determine biological sex, not what some people claim.
Gender is not determined by biological sex, despite what you claim.
 
Tell us Temujin, if a man can identify as a woman, then they must be able to imagine they are pregnant, and also imagine they arent pregnant, so why do you think there is abortion
 
Wrong.

Wrong

Your inability to understand, and unwillingness to accept reality, doesn't make it go away. You are wrong.

Gender is not determined by biological sex, despite what you claim.
Wrong. Your refusal to accept reality is the danger to society.
A man is the adult human male and has XY chromosomes, male anatomy and male reproductive organs. You are saying they dont.

It begs the questiion whether you can recognise any reality.

Thankfully society is turning the tide against this mentally deficient ideology.
Better get used to not being able to communicate with people
 
Wrong. Your refusal to accept reality is the danger to society.
A man is the adult human male and has XY chromosomes, male anatomy and male reproductive organs. You are saying they dont.
Wrong. You are describing a cis male. This person could be a trans woman or non-binary. Their passport may say male or female. They may live as and be known as either a man or a woman or neither. Human society is not driven by biology.
It begs the questiion whether you can recognise any reality.
Reality is out there. You can meet trans people in any walk of life. You have certainly been served by a trans person in a shop or a restaurant. You may be represented by one in Parliament or on a Council. Your car may be serviced by one. You could even find yourself being arrested, prosecuted, convicted and judged by trans people. Your blindness is your problem
Thankfully society is turning the tide against this mentally deficient ideology.
Better get used to not being able to communicate with people
You are completely deluded. Society is overcoming the practical issues and fears of some people towards trans. Every aspect of life is dealing with the issue, not by denial or refusal to accept, but by compromise, dialogue and negotiation. You are being left behind and you cannot see it.
 
Wrong. You are describing a cis male.
Wrong. No such thing as that. A male has XY chromosomes, male anatomy and male reproductive organs. Period.

This person could be a trans woman or non-binary.
If they are male they have XY chromosomes, male anatomy and male reproductive organs, so they are a man and not 'non-binary' or 'transwoman' whatever you think those words mean.
Their passport may say male or female.
their chromosomes, anatomy and reproductive organs determine whether the passport is right or wrong.
They may live as and be known as either a man or a woman or neither.
not for most people.
Human society is not driven by biology.
human society is driven my biology, not least the two sexes are required for reproduction and human society to continue.

Reality is out there.
Reality is that a woman is the female adult and has XX chromosomes, female anatomy and female reproductive organs.
You can meet trans people in any walk of life.
Though you dont realise it, every human being you meet is either male or female or intersex, you just need to recognise them.
You have certainly been served by a trans person in a shop or a restaurant.
Every single person I have been served by is male, female or intersex whatever they called themselves.
You may be represented by one in Parliament or on a Council.
Every single person in parliament and on every council is either male, female or intersex.
Your car may be serviced by one.
Depends what you mean by car, but every mechanic I have met has been either male, female or intersex.
You could even find yourself being arrested, prosecuted, convicted and judged by trans people.
They would be male or female or intersex, everyone is.
Your blindness is your problem
Every person is either male, female or intersex, your denial is your problem

You are completely deluded.
Its observable reality. For a person to be pregnant they have to have female anatomy. Imagining names for people Temujin doesn't change that reality
Society is overcoming the practical issues and fears of some people towards trans.
Since all men and women are either male, female or intersex, I cant see what fear you are seeing. The human species is founded on male and female.

Every aspect of life is dealing with the issue, not by denial or refusal to accept, but by compromise, dialogue and negotiation.
there is no issue and no acceptance, the moon is not made of cheese and all people are male or female or intersex.
You are being left deluded and you cannot see it.
 
Wrong. No such thing as that. A male has XY chromosomes, male anatomy and male reproductive organs. Period.
Now you are really confused. A trans man might have periods, but not a cis man, which is what you are describing.
If they are male they have XY chromosomes, male anatomy and male reproductive organs, so they are a man and not 'non-binary' or 'transwoman' whatever you think those words mean.
I know what these words mean. If you don't, I suggest you look them up, as it will be difficult to live in human society containing such people living openly if you don't.
their chromosomes, anatomy and reproductive organs determine whether the passport is right or wrong.
No. The appropriate authorities decide whether a passport is right or wrong, not some random deluded denialist off the Internet.
human society is driven my biology, not least the two sexes are required for reproduction and human society to continue.
Wrong. Firstly, human interaction is driven by a great deal more than biology. Secondly, biology is a great deal more complicated than your simplistic binary model. No biologist would agree with your nonsense.
Reality is that a woman is the female adult and has XX chromosomes, female anatomy and female reproductive organs. Though you dont realise it, every human being you meet is either male or female or intersex, you just need to recognise them.
Sure. I recognise them by accepting what they say about themselves, not by demanding to look at their gonads.
Every single person I have been served by is male, female or intersex whatever they called themselves.
Indeed. And many of them have been trans. Why do you think that large corporations such as BP or John Lewis have policies aimed at supporting and advancing their trans staff if such staff do not exist?
Every single person in parliament and on every council is either male, female or intersex.
And many are trans. Some are non-binary.
Depends what you mean by car, but every mechanic I have met has been either male, female or intersex.
You do realise that this is the equivalent to saying that everyone you meet is very tall, very short or somewhere in between?
They would be male or female or intersex, everyone is.
Every person is either male, female or intersex, your denial is your problem
Your misunderstanding is your problem. Being mal, female at intersex does not preclude being trans or non-binary.
Its observable reality. For a person to be pregnant they have to have female anatomy. Imagining names for people Temujin doesn't change that reality
Of course they must have female anatomy. That doesn't stop them being trans men. Indeed every transman has female anatomy of some form or another.
Since all men and women are either male, female or intersex, I cant see what fear you are seeing. The human species is founded on male and female.
Since you have frequently brought up the issue of so-called "female only spaces", you must have a memory lapse.
there is no issue and no acceptance, the moon is not made of cheese and all people are male or female or intersex.
You are being left deluded and you cannot see it.
You are right that there is no issue. The existence of trans people and their right to exist is fully accepted everywhere that matters.
 
Now you are really confused. A trans man might have periods, but not a cis man, which is what you are describing.
You are confused. A woman menstruates, a man doesn't. Its dependent on the anatomy. You need to grasp that reality or we will be very limited on what we can discuss and debate

I know what these words mean. If you don't, I suggest you look them up, as it will be difficult to live in human society containing such people living openly if you don't.
I know what male and female is, and what men and women are, and have even told you. All people are men and women or intersex, its a biological reality. You need to grasp that reality or we will be very limited on what we can discuss and debate

No. The appropriate authorities decide whether a passport is right or wrong, not some random deluded denialist off the Internet.
Biological sex is immutable whatever ideas authorities come to. However we will make sure authorities dont succumb to false ideologies.

Wrong. Firstly, human interaction is driven by a great deal more than biology. Secondly, biology is a great deal more complicated than your simplistic binary model. No biologist would agree with your nonsense.
Now you are trying to change your faireytale. You said human society is not driven by biology, but of course it is in the respect of reproduction and continuation of the species. Since you deny the reality of biological sex, you didn't want to acknowledge that.
And all biologists who aren't woke activists recognise the reality of biological sex. You trying to claim otherwise is just you denying reality
https://projectnettie.wordpress.com/

Sure. I recognise them by accepting what they say about themselves, not by demanding to look at their gonads.
You don't have to look at the gonads to tell whether they are lying about their sex, but if you do look at the gonads you will see whether they are lying about their sex.
If a 9 year old tells you they are 21 do you let them do all that adults do? Of course you don't and neither can they. Can you tell the difference between a child and an adult? Same with a man and a woman, for 99% its obvious.

Yes indeed. So why did you say 'wrong' ?

And many of them have been trans.
As far as both of us are concerned they are all men or women or intersex, as far as I am concerned none of them are 'trans'
Why do you think that large corporations such as BP or John Lewis have policies aimed at supporting and advancing their trans staff if such staff do not exist?
Because they are captured. Business cant change the reality of biological sex. People are fighting back against the lies and confusion and the tide is turning. Already given you examples.

And many are trans. Some are non-binary.
Though you don't realise it, every human being you meet is either male or female or intersex, you just need to recognise them for what they are as part of who they are rather than what they aren't.
As far as both of us are concerned they are all men or women or intersex, that is observable and quantifiable, as far as I am concerned none of them are 'trans' which is just what some people claim.

You do realise that this is the equivalent to saying that everyone you meet is very tall, very short or somewhere in between?
And they are, just as everyone is short, tall or somewhere in between. One cant have 9 people who are under 6' and one who identifies as the shortest at 6'7. Get it?

Your misunderstanding is your problem. Being mal, female at intersex does not preclude being trans or non-binary.
I do biological sex, I don't do gender, so all people are either male, female or intersex. Got it?

Of course they must have female anatomy. That doesn't stop them being trans men.
I dont do gender identity. Women have female anatomy and men have male anatomy. A woman who calls herself a 'transman' is a woman and not a 'transman'

Indeed every transman has female anatomy of some form or another.
I dont do gender identity remember, its mentally deficient. Everyone is either male or female or intersex. A woman is the adult female and has XX chromosomes, female anatomy and female reproductive organs. Look, I dont do gender identity ideology, I can see it is a lie, however the biological sex is observable evidence based reality, something neither of us can deny, so if you want to discuss with me, you will have to do so with biological sex and not imaginary gender ideology that a few people claim and others dont.

Since you have frequently brought up the issue of so-called "female only spaces", you must have a memory lapse.
Female only spaces yes, its quantifiable and evidence based reality.

You are right that there is no issue. The existence of trans people and their right to exist is fully accepted everywhere that matters.
Correct, no issue, the moon isnt made of cheese and all people are male, female or intersex. And that is what people must recognise if we want to be able to communicate
 
On the one hand we have the accepted framework of the law, medicine, biology, sociology, psychiatry and politics. On the other we have your crackpot denial ism. You are wrong, plain and simple. Trans men and women have always existed, exist now and always will exist. All that has changed is a willingness by those in authority in all spheres of life, to treat them humanely and compassionately, while recognising their existence. You and your shuttered mind cannot deal with this fact. You obsess over it, because your failure is reinforced every day that passes. Trans people exist. Trans men, who are pregnant exist. Trans men who are pregnant are entitled to abortions, just as they are entitled to parental leave and pay. They will continue to exist whatever blethering you care to make regarding chromosomes.
We have the accepted framework for law, medicine, biology and psychiatry, as observable quantifiable evidence based reality, and as it has been for centuries. On the other hand we have woke activists who imagine sexually perverted things and cant stop talking about them and telling others reality isnt what it is. If we want to treat people humanely we dont lie to them and accept their lies. That is not a good outcome for anyone.

As to this topic, if you cant accept that only a woman, a female can be pregnant, whatever trans cis goblin pixie you care to call people, then we cant have a conversation about abortion.

Now there may be women who have a dysphoria with the sex, but they are women, not trans cis goblin pixies or whatever you call them.
Have you got that Temujin?
 
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