Chosen to Salvation !

brightfame52

Well-known member
John 10 is not the totality of the record

If you read Paul alone when he stated Christ gave himself for me would you conclude he died for Paul alone ?

Your methodology is faulty

Because you do not consider the totality of scripture

and you do this time and time again
John 10 is the foundation because Jesus tells us specifically who He died for, and other scripture should not contradict it. If you go beyond what Jesus specifically said regarding who He died for, you are in assumption. Jesus Christ is the Chief Stone and true preachers build upon that 1 Cor 3 11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member

So, the Bible says this about foreknowledge and predestination.

Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Spiritual Blessings in Christ


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[a] for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[b] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Romans 8:28-30English Standard Version (ESV)


28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Do you deny the Bible teaches this?




Calvinist don't limit the atonement, the Bible does.

Words of Jesus:

John 6:37-39English Standard Version (ESV)

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

In this verse, Jesus discriminated between everyone and all that God the Father gives him.

John 6:44English Standard Version (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Once again Jesus makes the distinction between everyone and those who were drawn.

HENCE: Jesus himself taught this. He went even farther with

John 15:16


You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
[/QUOTE]
Above when you ask me if I believe you are quoting the Bible, it is a blind and misplaced question. We all know those things are in the Bible. Perhaps what you are trying to say is do I agree with your interpretation. And no, I think your interpretations as I understand them are colored by Calvinism and dictated to you by TULIP.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
John 10 is the foundation because Jesus tells us specifically who He died for, and other scripture should not contradict it. If you go beyond what Jesus specifically said regarding who He died for, you are in assumption. Jesus Christ is the Chief Stone and true preachers build upon that 1 Cor 3 11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
The issue with what you are saying is not whether Jesus identified who He would die for, but who the sheep are.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You seem to always fail to implement 2 Timothy 2:15 and therefore arrive at errant conclusions.

John 10:11, 15 should help you, but somehow I doubt it.
Thanks for responding, but I have to say your response was right in line with what i said. You point me to verses where Jesus talks about sheep and then you assume what He means. The point was to discuss what Jesus means when he says "sheep" Consider what Isaiah wrote. Remember that "we all like sheep have gone astray" All of us. And God laid all our iniquity on Him
 

civic

Well-known member
Thanks for responding, but I have to say your response was right in line with what i said. You point me to verses where Jesus talks about sheep and then you assume what He means. The point was to discuss what Jesus means when he says "sheep" Consider what Isaiah wrote. Remember that "we all like sheep have gone astray" All of us. And God laid all our iniquity on Him
And when 1 goes astray He leaves the 99 to get the One stray sheep that is from His Flock.

So what is your point regarding sheep ?

Are you saying one can be a sheep and Jesus not their Shepherd ?
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
If you are like other Calvinists here, you have assumed that Jesus only died for those who would come to Him.
But Isaiah says we are all like sheep and He took all our sins upon Himself
That's correct, He only died for His sheep and none other. Isaiah is also talking of His people, sheep, not goats or the world at large.

So in hindsight I assumed nothing, I let the text speak for itself.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
That's correct, He only died for His sheep and none other. Isaiah is also talking of His people, sheep, not goats or the world at large.

So in hindsight I assumed nothing, I let the text speak for itself.
There is no contextural evidence that Isaiah is talking about the Calvinist chosen group. Isaiah says "we all" speaking of himself as a human. Because the truth is we all have sinned.
If you can pick out something in that chapter of Isaiah teaching that the "all" who have sinned are the Calvinist chosen, please direct us there.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Agreed, then he pits other scripture against scripture he doesn't like.
What I call learning "line upon line, concept upon concept" you call pitting scripture against against.
I have to say, Calvinist are not prone in these discussions to look at the Bible line upon line. Instead what they do is try to adhere to Calvinism and TULIP.
Just a note that you are arguing against me with another Calvinist poster who thrives on misrepresenting who I am and what I say. I would advise you when talking to be that you stop listening to the poster who makes all the personal remarks about me. Instead ask me if you want to know what scriptures I base my doctrine on.
 
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civic

Well-known member
What I call learning "line upon line, concept upon concept" you call pitting scripture against against.
I have to say, Calvinist are not prone in these discussions to look at the Bible line upon line. Instead what they do is try to adhere to Calvinism and TULIP.
say the one who believes in the pelagian live like the devil, continuing in sin, having your cake and eat it too, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound ? may it always be heresy and false teaching.

cheap grace is a DISGRACE upon the name of JESUS.

he forgave sinners and told them go and sin no more but you would have Him say go in and continue in your sin.

appalling !

He save us from sin, not to sin.

CHEAP GRACE YIKES....................................
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
say the one who believes in the pelagian live like the devil, continuing in sin, having your cake and eat it too, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound ? may it always be heresy and false teaching.

cheap grace is a DISGRACE upon the name of JESUS.

he forgave sinners and told them go and sin no more but you would have Him say go in and continue in your sin.

appalling !

He save us from sin, not to sin.

CHEAP GRACE YIKES....................................
Matthew 7:21-23 shows the demise of the lawless.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
There is no contextural evidence that Isaiah is talking about the Calvinist chosen group. Isaiah says "we all" speaking of himself as a human. Because the truth is we all have sinned.
If you can pick out something in that chapter of Isaiah teaching that the "all" who have sinned are the Calvinist chosen, please direct us there.
They are Gods sheep, His people, they are none other, and you show disdain for them by attempting to derogate them with your label. I hope this is not the hatred for the brothers as per 1 John.
 
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