Chosen to Salvation !

TomFL

Well-known member
I never give up truth. 2 Thess 2:13 teaches the same thing. Men were chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
It was not truth you posted in citing Isa 43:10 and concluding that verse shows that God chooses men to believe,

It does no such thing

and 2Th 2:13 does not support you either

All that verse shows is God set the means by which men are saved which is belief in the truth and the sanctificationn of the Spirit

The verse says absolutely nothing at all about God choosing people to believe
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
It was not truth you posted in citing Isa 43:10 and concluding that verse shows that God chooses men to believe,

It does no such thing

and 2Th 2:13 does not support you either

All that verse shows is God set the means by which men are saved which is belief in the truth and the sanctificationn of the Spirit

The verse says absolutely nothing at all about God choosing people to believe
Both the OT and NT bear witness to that truth !
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Many in mans religion deny the fact that Gods People, His Beloved, were chosen to salvation by Him. This Salvation consists in Two Spiritual Blessings #1 Sanctification of the Spirit and #2 Belief of the Truth/Faith ,

So God from the beginning Chose them to be recipients of the sanctifying works of the Spirit and belief in the Truth, which are Salvation blessings.

In other words, Faith/ belief of the Truth is the result of God saving us. We cant believe the truth when were by nature lost, or we cant believe the Truth without being saved first by the saving work of the Spirit. Its that same work Paul writes of in Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Without this saving mercy of the Spirit renewing us, we cant believe the Truth. Paul here in 2 Thess 2:13 is describing what Salvation is that Gods elect were chosen to: It consists in the Sanctifying Work if the Spirit and Belief of the Truth.

This is what the New Covenant promised to the Elect of God Ezk 36: 25-27

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.


26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

At 2 Thess 2:13, you don't seem to realize that the salvation event in view is this one:

Just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time apart from sin to save those who eagerly await him. Hebrews 9:28

Paul is saying these Christians are chosen for salvation when Jesus comes again. See Context.

Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.... But we should always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
At 2 Thess 2:13, you don't seem to realize that the salvation event in view is this one:

Just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time apart from sin to save those who eagerly await him. Hebrews 9:28

Paul is saying these Christians are chosen for salvation when Jesus comes again. See Context.

Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.... But we should always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
I know what the context is. Now in that context is the truth that some had been chosen to believe through the Spirits work, its Salvation to believe as well. Salvation is past, present and future, but its all the same Salvation !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Both the OT and NT bear witness to that truth !
Afraid not

It was not truth you posted in citing Isa 43:10 and concluding that verse shows that God chooses men to believe,

It does no such thing

and 2Th 2:13 does not support you either

All that verse shows is God set the means by which men are saved which is belief in the truth and the sanctificationn of the Spirit

The verse says absolutely nothing at all about God choosing people to believe
Both the OT and NT bear witness to that truth !
No just your your theology

It was not truth you posted in citing Isa 43:10 and concluding that verse shows that God chooses men to believe,

It does no such thing

and 2Th 2:13 does not support you either

All that verse shows is God set the means by which men are saved which is belief in the truth and the sanctificationn of the Spirit

The verse says absolutely nothing at all about God choosing people to believe
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
I know what the context is. Now in that context is the truth that some had been chosen to believe through the Spirits work, its Salvation to believe as well. Salvation is past, present and future, but its all the same Salvation !

It seems as though you are not too interested in facts.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know what the context is. Now in that context is the truth that some had been chosen to believe through the Spirits work, its Salvation to believe as well. Salvation is past, present and future, but its all the same Salvation !
Apparently you don't

The passage is speaking of Christians and eschatological salvation at Christ's second advent

It is not speaking of unconditionally selecting men for entrance into salvation
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Afraid not

It was not truth you posted in citing Isa 43:10 and concluding that verse shows that God chooses men to believe,

It does no such thing

and 2Th 2:13 does not support you either

All that verse shows is God set the means by which men are saved which is belief in the truth and the sanctificationn of the Spirit

The verse says absolutely nothing at all about God choosing people to believe

No just your your theology

It was not truth you posted in citing Isa 43:10 and concluding that verse shows that God chooses men to believe,

It does no such thing

and 2Th 2:13 does not support you either

All that verse shows is God set the means by which men are saved which is belief in the truth and the sanctificationn of the Spirit

The verse says absolutely nothing at all about God choosing people to believe
Afraid so !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know what the context is. Now in that context is the truth that some had been chosen to believe through the Spirits work, its Salvation to believe as well. Salvation is past, present and future, but its all the same Salvation !
All true Christians are chosen for eschatoloical salvation when Christ appears

but that has nothing at all with unconditional particular election
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
All true Christians are chosen for eschatoloical salvation when Christ appears

but that has nothing at all with unconditional particular election
Rabbit trail. Men were Chosen to Salvation before the foundation, and that automatically entails they were chosen to believe, since believing accompanies salvation !
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
It was not truth you posted in citing Isa 43:10 and concluding that verse shows that God chooses men to believe,

It does no such thing

and 2Th 2:13 does not support you either

All that verse shows is God set the means by which men are saved which is belief in the truth and the sanctificationn of the Spirit

The verse says absolutely nothing at all about God choosing people to believe

So your "gospel" is that those who choose for themselves to "believe", and then choose to "sanctify themselves by the Spirit", THEN God will save them?

SERIOUSLY?!
You really have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to get around the plain text.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So your "gospel" is that those who choose for themselves to "believe", and then choose to "sanctify themselves by the Spirit", THEN God will save them?

SERIOUSLY?!
You really have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to get around the plain text.
The plain test of what 2th 2:13 ?

No where does it state God would determine them to believe

that is where the mental gymnastics are needed
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Rabbit trail. Men were Chosen to Salvation before the foundation, and that automatically entails they were chosen to believe, since believing accompanies salvation !
Nope

The verse you cited shows

All true Christians are chosen for eschatoloical salvation when Christ appears

but that has nothing at all with unconditional particular election
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The plain test of what 2th 2:13 ?

No where does it state God would determine them to believe

that is where the mental gymnastics are needed
You mean no where does it state God would not determine them to believe ! All things work according to His determination in salvation Eph 1:11-13

11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You mean no where does it state God would not determine them to believe ! All things work according to His determination in salvation Eph 1:11-13

11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Again that concerns the faithful in Christ not unbelievers

Did you ever hear of context and relevant audience
 
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