Chosen to Salvation !

brightfame52

Well-known member
Again that concerns the faithful in Christ not unbelievers

Did you ever hear of context and relevant audience
The Faithful in Christ are individuals Chosen in Christ before the foundation, before they existed. Were they faithful or believers before the foundation before they existed?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The Faithful in Christ are individuals Chosen in Christ before the foundation, before they existed. Were they faithful or believers before the foundation before they existed?
There were no individuals before the foundation of the earth

and no one was chosen to be in Christ

Rather God chose that those who would be in Christ would be holy and and blameless before him
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
There were no individuals before the foundation of the earth

and no one was chosen to be in Christ

Rather God chose that those who would be in Christ would be holy and and blameless before him
Yes there were individuals before the foundation of the world, in Christ, all the individuals that comprised His Body the Church, Chosen in Christ before the foundation. Eph 1 4 God knew each individual of them, before the foundation, before they existed in the flesh. Dont put reason above revelation ! Thats a big problem
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes there were individuals before the foundation of the world, in Christ, all the individuals that comprised His Body the Church, Chosen in Christ before the foundation. Eph 1 4 God knew each individual of them, before the foundation, before they existed in the flesh. Dont put reason above revelation ! Thats a big problem
Sorry there was no pre-existence for the Ephesians

and the Ephesians were not in Christ until they believed

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

and nothing anywhere states they were chosen to be in Christ
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry there was no pre-existence for the Ephesians

and the Ephesians were not in Christ until they believed

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

and nothing anywhere states they were chosen to be in Christ
Yes, the Chosen in Christ which were chosen in Christ before the foundation, they existed in Gods estimation. Eph 1 4 You are elevating reason over revelation again !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes, the Chosen in Christ which were chosen in Christ before the foundation, they existed in Gods estimation. Eph 1 4 You are elevating reason over revelation again !
Note the verse does not state they were chosen to be in Christ

It does state the faithful in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless before God in Love

There is no unconditional election in the verse
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Note the verse does not state they were chosen to be in Christ

It does state the faithful in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless before God in Love

There is no unconditional election in the verse
You lost me. But those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, are in Him then, Holy and without blame in His Love. Their being in Christ chosen, is unconditional, simply because they apart from the Divine Mind and Purpose, did not exist. You put reason above revelation !
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
You lost me. But those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, are in Him then, Holy and without blame in His Love. Their being in Christ chosen, is unconditional, simply because they apart from the Divine Mind and Purpose, did not exist. You put reason above revelation !
Romans 3:11 says “there are none who seek God.”
Isaiah 65:1 says “I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me.”[NASB]

Now, I’d love to see how the others in this discussion would answer Isaiah 65:1. How can anyone find Him who did not seek Him? I mean, if you lose $50, how could you find it if you didn’t go looking for it? You can’t. Then how did they find God when they didn’t even seek Him? We know how, but if they truly answer it, it will undermine their whole system.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You lost me. But those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, are in Him then, Holy and without blame in His Love. Their being in Christ chosen, is unconditional, simply because they apart from the Divine Mind and Purpose, did not exist. You put reason above revelation !
No they were not in Christ before they existed

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No they were not in Christ before they existed

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”
Yes they were Eph 1 4
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes they were Eph 1 4
Yes they were what ?

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”


this says they were without Christ
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes they were what ?

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”


this says they were without Christ
lol, you need to pay attention to this exchange !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I said it, and you wasnt paying attention, you do that a lot !

Well lets see

I stated

No they were not in Christ before they existed

and you stated yes they were

scripture on the otherhand says


Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”

they were without Christ or separate from from Christ in another translation

so scripture clearly refutes your claim
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Well lets see

I stated

No they were not in Christ before they existed

and you stated yes they were

scripture on the otherhand says


Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”

they were without Christ or separate from from Christ in another translation

so scripture clearly refutes your claim
Again you did not pay attention. People were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. In Christ, that means they had a union with Him in eternity before they existed physically. Don't put reason above revelation. Eph 1 4
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Again you did not pay attention. People were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. In Christ, that means they had a union with Him in eternity before they existed physically. Don't put reason above revelation. Eph 1 4
Sorry that is your interpretation

The church - the faithful in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless

No individual men did not have a union with him

Scripture says the opposite

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”

there is no union with Christ before one believes

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Personal attack https://carm.org/forum-rules
Again you did not pay attention. People were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. In Christ, that means they had a union with Him in eternity before they existed physically. Don't put reason above revelation. Eph 1 4

Edit per mod
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry that is your interpretation

The church - the faithful in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless

No individual men did not have a union with him

Scripture says the opposite

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”

there is no union with Christ before one believes

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
That is what scripture says. Eph 1 4 it can't be more clear.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You seem to have great difficulty with reading comprehension. Either that, or you imagine whatever you like despite what the text actually says.
I think it might be the later
That is what scripture says. Eph 1 4 it can't be more clear.

If your interpretation contradicts other scripture then it is an error

Sorry that is your interpretation

The church - the faithful in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless

No individual men did not have a union with him

Scripture says the opposite

Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”

there is no union with Christ before one believes

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

and it does not contradict other scripture in the very same context

conclusion it's an error
 
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