Christ obtained Eternal Redemption for us !

Theo1689

Well-known member
As I questioned can you prove me wrong regarding what I posted here ?

You asking questions does not do it

Sorry, I don't fall for you fallaciously shifting the burden of proof.
YOU are the one who needs to "prove yourself" RIGHT.

And so far, you haven't done so.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Sorry, I don't fall for you fallaciously shifting the burden of proof.
YOU are the one who needs to "prove yourself" RIGHT.

And so far, you haven't done so.
Give it up

You never address anything and play this game constantly

either address the verse or don't

1 Tim. 2:3–6 —KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Give it up

You never address anything and play this game constantly

either address the verse or don't

1 Tim. 2:3–6 —KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I believe the passage.
Why don't you?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry, I don't fall for you fallaciously shifting the burden of proof.
YOU are the one who needs to "prove yourself" RIGHT.

And so far, you haven't done so.
Lol you may as well forget about him proving his points with scripture. He put that burden on you with the quickness
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Lol you may as well forget about him proving his points with scripture. He put that burden on you with the quickness
I know, right?

He quotes a verse that we accept and believe.
He offers no interpretation.
He offers no exegesis.

He simply says, "This verse contradicts Calvinism", even though it is very clear that it doesn't.

And he refuses to even ATTEMPT to justify his false claims.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I believe the passage.
Why don't you?
More fluff

You are unable to prove I don't believe the passage

or prove my interpretation false

1 Tim. 2:3–6 —KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
More fluff

You are unable to prove I don't believe the passage

And you are unable to prove it goes against Calvinism.

or prove my interpretation false

How can I? You REFUSE to GIVE your interpretation!

1 Tim. 2:3–6 —KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!"

So what's the problem? :) :D :D
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know, right?

He quotes a verse that we accept and believe.
He offers no interpretation.
He offers no exegesis.

He simply says, "This verse contradicts Calvinism", even though it is very clear that it doesn't.

And he refuses to even ATTEMPT to justify his false claims.

sorry this has been addressed many times previously

You posted nothing that proves me wrong so you have no grounds at all for claiming it false


1 Tim. 2:3–6 —KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What is good and acceptable in the sight of God who wills all men to be saved

1 Tim. 2:1–2 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.”

can you claim all men means elect men only ?

Some men ?

Are all that are in authority all elect

All kings All elect

How would Timothy's hearer's understand the term ?

How would they know who to pray for if not all in the category ?

Do you imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say some or elect if that is what he meant

finally Timothy notes

1 Tim. 2:6 —KJV
“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Four times He uses the term all
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
sorry this has been addressed many times previously

You posted nothing that proves me wrong so you have no grounds at all for claiming it false

You posted nothing that proves Calvinism wrong.
So why the double standard?

1 Tim. 2:3–6 —KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What is good and acceptable in the sight of God who wills all men to be saved

And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!"


1 Tim. 2:1–2 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.”

And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!"

can you claim all men means elect men only ?

Some men ?

Are all that are in authority all elect

All kings All elect

Where did I make any of those claims?
Why don't you tell us what YOU think it means?
Or are you too afraid to share your interpretation?

How would Timothy's hearer's understand the term ?

Why don't you ask them?

You see, this is the fallacy.
No matter what I say, you will say I'm wrong, and you will try to claim that YOU know what people 2000 years ago understood by the Scriptures, yet there is no way for you to prove yourself right.

How would they know who to pray for if not all in the category ?

Do you imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say some or elect if that is what he meant

Do YOU imagine that the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say "every single individual", if THAT is what he meant? :)

finally Timothy notes

1 Tim. 2:6 —KJV
“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Four times He uses the term all

And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!"

Since you offer no interpretation, but only quote Scripture, I can only agree with the Scripture.

Have a nice day! :)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Whats involved in this eternal redemption ?

I agree with Mr Poole who wrote:


i.e. deliverance of their guilty persons from eternal death, full remission of all their sins, Romans 3:25,26, full reconciliation to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18,19,21, with an instating them into all spiritual good. This work is styled
Hence agrees with Heb 10:14

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Also remission of sins is related to Justification, so this eternal redemption results in full justification for eternity !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You posted nothing that proves Calvinism wrong.
So why the double standard?



And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!"




And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!"



Where did I make any of those claims?
Why don't you tell us what YOU think it means?
Or are you too afraid to share your interpretation?



Why don't you ask them?

You see, this is the fallacy.
No matter what I say, you will say I'm wrong, and you will try to claim that YOU know what people 2000 years ago understood by the Scriptures, yet there is no way for you to prove yourself right.



Do YOU imagine that the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say "every single individual", if THAT is what he meant? :)



And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!"

Since you offer no interpretation, but only quote Scripture, I can only agree with the Scripture.

Have a nice day! :)
Sorry scripture does not say some and it does not say the elect

Why do you not address a singlev question asked

1 Tim. 2:1–2 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.”

can you claim all men means elect men only ?

No answer

Some men ?

No answer

Are all that are in authority all elect

no answer

All kings All elect

No answer

How would Timothy's hearer's understand the term ?

No answer

How would they know who to pray for if not all in the category ?

Do you imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say some or elect if that is what he meant

No answer

finally Timothy notes

1 Tim. 2:6 —KJV
“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Four times He uses the term all
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sorry scripture does not say some and it does not say the elect

I never said it did.
can you claim all men means elect men only ?

Please quote where I allegedly "claimed" that.

Some men ?

No answer

Straw-man.

Are all that are in authority all elect

no answer

Straw-man.

All kings All elect

No answer

Straw-man.

How would Timothy's hearer's understand the term ?

No answer

Why don't you ask them?
Then we'll both know.

Do you imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say some or elect if that is what he meant

No answer

I did answer.

Do YOU imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say "every single individual" if that is what he meant?

NO ANSWER.

finally Timothy notes

1 Tim. 2:6 —KJV
“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Four times He uses the term all

And all the Calvinists said, "Amen!" :)
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Sorry scripture does not say some and it does not say the elect

Why do you not address a singlev question asked

1 Tim. 2:1–2 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.”

can you claim all men means elect men only ?

No answer

Some men ?

No answer

Are all that are in authority all elect

no answer

All kings All elect

No answer

How would Timothy's hearer's understand the term ?

No answer

How would they know who to pray for if not all in the category ?

Do you imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say some or elect if that is what he meant

Finally

..............................

Theo replies

I did answer.

Do YOU imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say "every single individual" if that is what he meant?

.....................................

Well Theo That is a normal meaning of all

some and the elect are not

and no one wishing to be understood uses all four times when he means some or the elect







finally Timothy notes

1 Tim. 2:6 —KJV
“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry scripture does not say some and it does not say the elect

Why do you not address a singlev question asked

1 Tim. 2:1–2 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.”

can you claim all men means elect men only ?

No answer

Some men ?

No answer

Are all that are in authority all elect

no answer

All kings All elect

No answer

How would Timothy's hearer's understand the term ?

No answer

How would they know who to pray for if not all in the category ?

Do you imagine the Holy Spirit could not have inspired Timothy to say some or elect if that is what he meant

No answer

finally Timothy notes

1 Tim. 2:6 —KJV
“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Four times He uses the term all
Yes the elect are found in all classes of men. Whenever scripture is talking about men as being objects of the death of Christ it's limited to the Sheep or Elect or the Church.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes the elect are found in all classes of men. Whenever scripture is talking about men as being objects of the death of Christ it's limited to the Sheep or Elect or the Church.
All men cannot be limited to just elect

All men is not some men

And the word elect does not appear in the passage

1 Tim. 2:1–6 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
All men cannot be limited to just elect

All men is not some men

And the word elect does not appear in the passage

1 Tim. 2:1–6 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
Yes limited to the Sheep or Elect or the Church the body of Christ
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes limited to the Sheep or Elect or the Church the body of Christ
Do you not tire of ignoring the word of God

All men cannot be limited to just elect

All men is not some men

And the word elect does not appear in the passage

1 Tim. 2:1–6 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
 
Top