Christ obtained Eternal Redemption for us !

TomFL

Well-known member
Jn 10 is scripture. Thats specifically who Christ died for, obtained eternal redemption for ! Any others is speculation / presumption. Does your beliefs rest on speculation ? Thats not Faith in the Promises of God. Who is Jesus promised to save here Matt 1:21
yes it is

but it does not say he loves his sheep only

That would be but an assumption
 

TomFL

Well-known member
toms blasphemy



No scripture says that. also the Sheep who Christ died for shall never perish Jn 10:27-28,15

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Scripture is not blasphemy

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

1 Timothy 2:5–6 (KJV 1900)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hebrews 2:9 (KJV 1900)
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

even those who perish or are destroyed

Rom. 14:15 —KJV
“But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.”

1 Cor. 8:11 —KJV
“And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?”
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Excuse me who is Jesus promised to save here Matt 1:21?

This is greater

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
This is greater

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”
Who is Jesus promised to save Matt 1:21?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Who is Jesus promised to save Matt 1:21?
This is still greater

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
This is still greater

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”
I can't hear you. Who is Jesus promised to save Matt 1 21
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I can't hear you. Who is Jesus promised to save Matt 1 21
That is because you can't hear

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

He came to save all

He came to die for all

He will save those who believe on him
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That is because you can't hear

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

He came to save all

He came to die for all

He will save those who believe on him
Answer me this, in Matt 1:21 who does the Angel say Christ is promised to save ? Read the verse carefully
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
That is because you can't hear

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

He came to save all

He came to save "HIS PEOPLE" from their sins:

Matt. 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

He came to die for all

He lays down His life for THE SHEEP:

John 10:15
just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

He will save those who believe on him

And only those whom GOD gives faith (Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, Eph. 2:8, etc.) WILL believe. That's how the Father "draws" HIS PEOPLE.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Answer me this, in Matt 1:21 who does the Angel say Christ is promised to save ? Read the verse carefully
One does not eliminate the other

It's not one true the other false

Both are true

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
One does not eliminate the other

It's not one true the other false

Both are true

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”

Is "the world" saved?
If not, then your Saviour is a colossal failure.

In contrast, my Saviour is the PERFECT Saviour, who succeeded in saving EVERY person He intended to save.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
One does not eliminate the other

It's not one true the other false

Both are true

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
Are you going to answer the question ? Matt 1 21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Whose promised Jesus will save ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Are you going to answer the question ? Matt 1 21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Whose promised Jesus will save ?

In that verse his people

In john 4:42 the scope is the world as in other verses

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Are you going to answer the question ? Matt 1 21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Whose promised Jesus will save ?

In that verse his people

In john 4:42 the scope is the world as in other verses

I spend a lot of time doing apologetics with Mormons.
And their standard tactic is to run away from passages which contradict their theology, and instead hide behind more "comfortable" passages.

For instance, when we point out passages which teach that only one god exists (Deut. 4:35,39, Deut. 32:39, 1 Kings 8:60, Ps. 86:10, Isa. 43-46, etc.) they hide behind 1 Cor. 8:5, "gods many and lords many", which is (contextually) speaking of IDOLS.

It's bad enough when Mormons do it.
But for a professing "Christian" to do it is outright embarrassing.

You were asked about Matt. 1:21, "his people".
You ran off to JOHN, and the "world" passages.
Those passages don't refer to "his people".
Those passages have NOTHING to do with Matt. 1:21.
Apparently you can't deal with Matt. 1:21.
John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”

Can you please go back to Matt. 1:21 and try to address THAT verse?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I spend a lot of time doing apologetics with Mormons.
And their standard tactic is to run away from passages which contradict their theology, and instead hide behind more "comfortable" passages.

For instance, when we point out passages which teach that only one god exists (Deut. 4:35,39, Deut. 32:39, 1 Kings 8:60, Ps. 86:10, Isa. 43-46, etc.) they hide behind 1 Cor. 8:5, "gods many and lords many", which is (contextually) speaking of IDOLS.

It's bad enough when Mormons do it.
But for a professing "Christian" to do it is outright embarrassing.

You were asked about Matt. 1:21, "his people".
You ran off to JOHN, and the "world" passages.
Those passages don't refer to "his people".
Those passages have NOTHING to do with Matt. 1:21.
Apparently you can't deal with Matt. 1:21.


Can you please go back to Matt. 1:21 and try to address THAT verse?
well I am not a Mormon

and I already told him what the scope of that verse is and and that other verses posit a somewhat wider scope

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

John 3:16–17 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world,

Now just as I do not limit Christ death to Paul alone because Paul states Christ died for him I do not limit Christ's death to just his people

And if you like we can address the term world and your favorite Lexicon BAGD
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
In that verse his people

In john 4:42 the scope is the world as in other verses

John 4:42 —KJV
“And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
Good answer because that verse is foundational and clarification of all others related to whom He is promised to save. So if one doesnt preach that Jesus, who came to save a particular people [His People] from their sins they Preach another Jesus ! And this Jesus actually saved /obtained redemption for all of THEM !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Good answer because that verse is foundational and clarification of all others related to whom He is promised to save. So if one doesnt preach that Jesus, who came to save a particular people [His People] from their sins they Preach another Jesus ! And this Jesus actually saved /obtained redemption for all of THEM !
Sorry but it clearly states he came to save the world

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry but it clearly states he came to save the world

John 3:17 —KJV
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
The World of His People. Simple
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
well I am not a Mormon

I never said you were, of course.
You simply use the same tactics they do.

and I already told him what the scope of that verse is and and that other verses posit a somewhat wider scope

You "told" us?!
Why should we accept that you are any kind of "authority" here, when you have demonstrated time after time that you don't have the first clue how to interpret Scripture? Get over yourself, please.

You have CLAIMED that your verses are the "scope".
But you haven't actually DEMONSTRATED it.

And if you like we can address the term world and your favorite Lexicon BAGD

I've done it 20 times or more.
You simply reject the truth.
So I don't see any point in repeating myself again.
 
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