Christian inconsistancy about the Law

Manfred

Well-known member
I don't see where that says it is a blessing.
You don't?

Try reading it again.

Here is some more:

(Rom 2)
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

Can you claim that you have never done evil?
If you have not, there is great blessing for you.

If however you have done evil, wrath and fury awaits.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Two thoughts. First of all, forget using the word "we." YOU were never under the Law of Moses to begin with. The 613 commandments were given to the People of Israel, not to the world. So you didn't break the law because you were never under it.

Second, people keep the Law of Moses all the time. Remember that the Deut parargraph speaks of a blessing as well as a curse.
Grasping at straws much?

(Isa 17)
18 For I know their works and their thoughts, and the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and shall see my glory, 19 and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations. 20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the Lord, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the Lord, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. 21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the Lord.

(Rom 2)
9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:

None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.
13 Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.
The venom of asps is under their lips.
14 Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Paul mentions no blessing at all. Half truth is just a lie.

There is zero righteousness associated with someone keeping the commandments for someone else. The NT teaches falsehood regarding this issue.
Grasping at straws much?

Your claim before God is that you have kept His righteous law perfectly?

Half truths is just a lie.

Here:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

Talking about people with EGO's and who believe themselves perfectly righteous when the fruit they display here paints a totally different picture.

It will be God who knows you better than yourself, who will judge you rightly...
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
You don't?

Try reading it again.

Here is some more:

(Rom 2)
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

Can you claim that you have never done evil?
If you have not, there is great blessing for you.

If however you have done evil, wrath and fury awaits.
No, I'm sorry, but that doesn't go far enough. It doesn't say it's a blessing.

You are putting idiotic conditions on it, such as keeping it perfectly. Perfection was NEVER the standard. Consider:
Proverbs 24:16,
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Grasping at straws much?
No not really. I'm saying I know poeple who DO keep the law. My experience trumps your verses every day.

Have there been times when Israel was disobedient? Yes, of course. You can quote a gazillilon verses from the prophets chiding Israel for straying and warning of consequences. But there were also times when Israel was obedient.

God says that keeping the laws is easy:
Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
 

rossh

Well-known member
No not really. I'm saying I know poeple who DO keep the law. My experience trumps your verses every day.

Have there been times when Israel was disobedient? Yes, of course. You can quote a gazillilon verses from the prophets chiding Israel for straying and warning of consequences. But there were also times when Israel was obedient.

God says that keeping the laws is easy:
Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
that is about the " Word " of God, lol verse 14 is also from Romans ,,,,,,
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
No not really. I'm saying I know poeple who DO keep the law. My experience trumps your verses every day.

Have there been times when Israel was disobedient? Yes, of course. You can quote a gazillilon verses from the prophets chiding Israel for straying and warning of consequences. But there were also times when Israel was obedient.

God says that keeping the laws is easy:
Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
rossh you found this funny? what about God's words are funny?
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
that is about the " Word " of God, lol verse 14 is also from Romans ,,,,,,
rossh you will find that I completely ignore when anyone quotes from the New Testament. I just don't care. For me, it's no different than if they had quoted from the Vedas or the Quran or th Book of Mormon. It's just not an authoritatvie text for me.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Well, now I see why you come here, it so surly not to debate but to convert all here to Satanism, or worse.. Bad luck with that...

( you DO however make certain " claims " ) about what the " bible " is supposedly claiming/saying/teaching ( IYO ) but, deny the real truth of it by simply claiming that, to you the bible is never relevant.. BTW, the Koran and or the book of Mormon and or the NWT are just all simply man made fiction books..
So why come here in the first place ?
I come here becaue this is the Judaism forum, and I'm a jew. I have reported you for saying I want to convert people to Satanism. Shame on you.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
No, I'm sorry, but that doesn't go far enough. It doesn't say it's a blessing.

You are putting idiotic conditions on it, such as keeping it perfectly. Perfection was NEVER the standard. Consider:
Proverbs 24:16,
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Everyone is free to read it for themselves and decide weather or not keeping the Law perfectly will bring the blessing of eternal life. As it shows in the law, if you disobey (not perfectly) you receive the curse. You may believe it is a temporary curse that is lifted immediately because you say sorry, but there has been no atonement.

What you choose to ignore is the curse, and being redeemed from the curse. This you do to your own detriment.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
No not really. I'm saying I know poeple who DO keep the law. My experience trumps your verses every day.
Good for them. If they have been able to keep the Law perfectly all their lives, you should have your picture taken with these perfect people.

Mat 5:22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
No not really. I'm saying I know poeple who DO keep the law. My experience trumps your verses every day.

Have there been times when Israel was disobedient? Yes, of course. You can quote a gazillilon verses from the prophets chiding Israel for straying and warning of consequences. But there were also times when Israel was obedient.

God says that keeping the laws is easy:
Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
Why were sacrifices required.

You do not like to think hard about things do you?
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Everyone is free to read it for themselves and decide weather or not keeping the Law perfectly will bring the blessing of eternal life. As it shows in the law, if you disobey (not perfectly) you receive the curse. You may believe it is a temporary curse that is lifted immediately because you say sorry, but there has been no atonement.

What you choose to ignore is the curse, and being redeemed from the curse. This you do to your own detriment.
No, you are really not free to say something that is stated bluntly in the Tanakh. I quoted for you a verse that backed up my point. You have nothing except a new bunch of writings that contradict the original. No different than the Vedas, the Quran, the Book of Mormon.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Again, I documented to you that perfection is not the standard. You can insist that it is so until the cows come home. It wont change what the Tanakh says.
 
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