Christian inconsistancy about the Law

Open Heart

Well-known member
Everyone is free to read it for themselves and decide weather or not keeping the Law perfectly will bring the blessing of eternal life. As it shows in the law, if you disobey (not perfectly) you receive the curse. You may believe it is a temporary curse that is lifted immediately because you say sorry, but there has been no atonement.

What you choose to ignore is the curse, and being redeemed from the curse. This you do to your own detriment.
No, you are really not free to say something that is stated bluntly in the Tanakh. I quoted for you a verse that backed up my point. You have nothing except a new bunch of writings that contradict the original. No different than the Vedas, the Quran, the Book of Mormon.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Again, I documented to you that perfection is not the standard. You can insist that it is so until the cows come home. It wont change what the Tanakh says.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Why were sacrifices required.

You do not like to think hard about things do you?
As a general rule of thumb, I don't ask why God has made certain things necessary. But in my limited human reasoning, I believe that sharing a communal meal with God is a good way of establishing, re-establishing, or maintaining a relationship with him. However, although hving the temple and making sacrifices is the ideal, Judaism functions quite well without it. We simply do what Hosea commanded us to do -- render as bullocks the words of our lips (IOW replace sacrifices with prayers).
 

Manfred

Well-known member
No, you are really not free to say something that is stated bluntly in the Tanakh. I quoted for you a verse that backed up my point. You have nothing except a new bunch of writings that contradict the original. No different than the Vedas, the Quran, the Book of Mormon.
You think there is a contradiction?

The verse you quoted does not take away from what I said Paul wrote as the blessing. I also did not state it cannot be done, however I asked you to get a picture with those perfect men, as they are really exceptional.
I wonder though if they would agree with you.

You seem to be cornered and unable to follow our conversation.

What about you? How do you atone for the curse you unleashed upon yourself?
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Again, I documented to you that perfection is not the standard. You can insist that it is so until the cows come home. It wont change what the Tanakh says.
You think the imperfect can dwell within the holiness of God.

Your thinking as per your answer to sacrifices (which were not allowed to be eaten apart from the Levites) being a communal sharing of a meal proves my point.

Show me that God does not require your perfection in context again, that He is ok with your dirty rags.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
You think the imperfect can dwell within the holiness of God.

Your thinking as per your answer to sacrifices (which were not allowed to be eaten apart from the Levites) being a communal sharing of a meal proves my point.

Show me that God does not require your perfection in context again, that He is ok with your dirty rags.
You just can't seem to accept the verse I gave.
 

101G

Well-known member
As a general rule of thumb, I don't ask why God has made certain things necessary. But in my limited human reasoning, I believe that sharing a communal meal with God is a good way of establishing, re-establishing, or maintaining a relationship with him. However, although hving the temple and making sacrifices is the ideal, Judaism functions quite well without it. We simply do what Hosea commanded us to do -- render as bullocks the words of our lips (IOW replace sacrifices with prayers).
just as hebrews says, "Fruit of your LIPS, see OH, that's NEW TESTAMENT.
Hosea 14:2 "Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips."

Hebrews 13:10 "We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle." Hebrews 13:11 "For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp." Hebrews 13:12 "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate." Hebrews 13:13 "Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach." Hebrews 13:14 "For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."

well OT say the same thing as NT.

ONE MORE OT, Jonah 2:9 "But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD."

all those sacrifice of animals are done away with IN christ jesus/yESHUA.. so the animals are relieved, ...... (smile). NO MORE ANIMAL SACIFICE.

Oh how the NT compliments the OT. because the OT is the NT "HIDDEN", and the NT is the OT "REVEALED"...... hello.....

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
just as hebrews says, "Fruit of your LIPS, see OH, that's NEW TESTAMENT.
Hosea 14:2 "Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips."
No, this is the Tanakh. Get your testaments correct LOL
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Like I said, Paul never said the law was a blessing. The verses you quoted did not say so.
The context most certainly does.

Or what do you "imagine" the blessing is if not justification and eternal life.

Why do you now pretend and try to prove otherwise?

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19 and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. 24 For, as it is written, The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
You just can't seem to accept the verse I gave.
I accept it fully.

I do not however cherry pick and refuse to look at the greater context.

I also do not think God contradicts Himself, so the use of a good hermaneutic is important:
(Isa 66)
5 You meet him who joyfully works righteousness,
those who remember you in your ways.
Behold, you were angry, and we sinned;
in our sins we have been a long time, and shall we be saved?
6 We have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
We all fade like a leaf,
and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
ERROR, the NT is the OT REVEALED... (smile)... :eek: YIKES !

PICJAG, 101G.
Since the NT contradicts the Tanakh, it cannot be "revealed." The test whether a text can be considered is whether it buttresses the Torah's teachings, or whether it contradicts them.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
No, it really doesn't. And when you couple that on top of him saying the Law brings a curse, you get his clear perspective.
And now you resort edit per mod.

12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

BTW, it is God through Moses that told you that breaking the law brings a curse not Paul.

So when Paul points out that it is not the Law that is the curse, but you who break it who comes under a curse as per Deuteronomy, you pretend otherwise.

Do those good and righteous friends you spoke about stand in agreement with your false witness against Paul and Christianity?

Deut 11
26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, 28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way that I am commanding you today, to go after other gods that you have not known.
When God said He was setting down both a blessing and a curse, you thought He did not mean that you would become cursed when you broke the law. Go figure.
 
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Manfred

Well-known member
Since the NT contradicts the Tanakh, it cannot be "revealed." The test whether a text can be considered is whether it buttresses the Torah's teachings, or whether it contradicts them.
The funny thing is that you just blindly think it does because you were told it does.
Just like you think Paul called the law a curse, when His teaching is based on the OT scriptures, that say breaking the law brings a curse on you.

It seems that you are content to just accept things that are not true.
 
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