Christian inconsistancy about the Law

American Gothic

Well-known member
AGREED, this is why I invest in two words in this Grace that we live in.... A. "Relationship", and B. "Fellowship".
my view is if one has already been given eternal Life, then sin and repentance are an issue of Fellowship, not Salvation
David's sins effected his fellowship with his fellow Israelites and with his God within that covenant, but
he was already expecting a place with God forever

God prophetically said He would provide the necessary Blood
but like in Egypt
one must believe and trust what God said, and it must be Applied to get the promised benefit
 
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rossh

Well-known member
I'm not the one who laughed at God's word.
I am the one pushing, speaking about, and hoping you guys here will believe Gods Word and I get insulted for that, now you want to preach to ME on HIs Holy Word The Scriptures ?
 

101G

Well-known member
my view is if one has already been given eternal Life, then sin and repentance are an issue of Fellowship, not Salvation
David's sins effected his fellowship with his fellow Israelites and with his God within that covenant, but
he was already expecting a place with God forever

God prophetically said He would provide the necessary Blood
but like in Egypt
one must believe and trust what God said, and it must be Applied to get the promised benefit
first thanks for the reply, but "BROKEN" Fellowship is not broken "Relationship", which NEVER CHANGE. being "BORN" of God, or again, NOTHING can break that Relationship, as in Nature, when a woman give birth to a child. that child can go anti social and kill, but that will not change that Relationship of Parent and Child, but it can have the effect of BROKEN Fellowship in it's enjoyment. this is what happen to Man and God, BROKEN FELLOWSHIP, but God himself came in flesh and re-establish the "FELLOWSHIP" between God and Man.

so no, "Broken Fellowship", it can be mended, ... but that "Relationship" is entact, (if Born of God). 1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." BINGO, that the fellowship. but we all are in Relationship with one another in Christ Jesus. so if we sin, LISTEN, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

so sin cannot break our "Relationship" with God, not even our fellowship one with another in God, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

if we sin, we have an advocate. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

and note: God do not have any babe babe kids running around, he correct us, Hebrews 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." Hebrews 12:7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" Hebrews 12:8 "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Hebrews 12:9 "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

so God will not let... his kids stay in sin. he correct us.

Hope this helps.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
I am the one pushing, speaking about, and hoping you guys here will believe Gods Word and I get insulted for that, now you want to preach to ME on HIs Holy Word The Scriptures ?
Well, it would help if you didn't laugh at God's word when it was quoted to you. Yes?
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I do not speak to people who accuse me of lying.
That's fine if you are falsely accused.

However, you insist that Paul never really writes about the blessing of the Law, when he really does, even though the word blessing is not there.

The blessing is everlasting life. Here it is again:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

You saying that there is no mention by Paul of the blessing of obeying the Law is a blatant falsehood. You may not like the word liar, but baring false witness is baring false witness. Saying justification by God for those who obey the law is not really speaking about blessing by God is nothing but bearing false witness.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
That's fine if you are falsely accused.

However, you insist that Paul never really writes about the blessing of the Law, when he really does, even though the word blessing is not there.

The blessing is everlasting life. Here it is again:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

You saying that there is no mention by Paul of the blessing of obeying the Law is a blatant falsehood. You may not like the word liar, but baring false witness is baring false witness. Saying justification by God for those who obey the law is not really speaking about blessing by God is nothing but bearing false witness.
Again, I do not talk with people who call me a liar.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Again, I do not talk with people who call me a liar.
That's fine if you are falsely accused.

However, you insist that Paul never really writes about the blessing of the Law, when he really does, even though the word blessing is not there.

The blessing is everlasting life. Here it is again:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

You saying that there is no mention by Paul of the blessing of obeying the Law is a blatant falsehood. You may not like the word liar, but baring false witness is baring false witness. Saying justification by God for those who obey the law is not really speaking about blessing by God is nothing but bearing false witness.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
That's fine if you are falsely accused.

However, you insist that Paul never really writes about the blessing of the Law, when he really does, even though the word blessing is not there.

The blessing is everlasting life. Here it is again:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

You saying that there is no mention by Paul of the blessing of obeying the Law is a blatant falsehood. You may not like the word liar, but baring false witness is baring false witness. Saying justification by God for those who obey the law is not really speaking about blessing by God is nothing but bearing false witness.
AGain, I do not engage in conversations with people who accuse me of lying.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
AGain, I do not engage in conversations with people who accuse me of lying.
You would be right if it was a false accusation.

That's fine if you are falsely accused.

However, you insist that Paul never really writes about the blessing of the Law, when he really does, even though the word blessing is not there.

The blessing is everlasting life. Here it is again:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

You saying that there is no mention by Paul of the blessing of obeying the Law is a blatant falsehood. You may not like the word liar, but baring false witness is baring false witness. Saying justification by God for those who obey the law is not really speaking about blessing by God is nothing but bearing false witness.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
You would be right if it was a false accusation.

That's fine if you are falsely accused.

However, you insist that Paul never really writes about the blessing of the Law, when he really does, even though the word blessing is not there.

The blessing is everlasting life. Here it is again:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

You saying that there is no mention by Paul of the blessing of obeying the Law is a blatant falsehood. You may not like the word liar, but baring false witness is baring false witness. Saying justification by God for those who obey the law is not really speaking about blessing by God is nothing but bearing false witness.
Again, I do not talk to people who call me a liar. If you want to keep wasting your time and effort composing these long winded sermons, that's on you. I don't read them, and I won't be replying. But you know, there are those who enjoy the sound of their own voices.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Again, I do not talk to people who call me a liar. If you want to keep wasting your time and effort composing these long winded sermons, that's on you. I don't read them, and I won't be replying. But you know, there are those who enjoy the sound of their own voices.
Lurkers are reading them, and that is fine with me.
If you prefer to show ignorance then that is up to you.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Well, it would help if you didn't laugh at God's word when it was quoted to you. Yes?
Well I did not do that, this was your supposition. I did how ever laugh at the POSTING of the very irrelevant passage/s. simply that.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Well I did not do that, this was your supposition. I did how ever laugh at the POSTING of the very irrelevant passage/s. simply that.
I'm glad yuou don't find the following verses funny:

Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
 

rossh

Well-known member
14 On the contrary, the word is very close to you - in your mouth, even in your heart; therefore, you can do it!

15 "Look! I am presenting you today with, on the one hand, life and good; and on the other, death and evil -

16 in that I am ordering you today to love ADONAI your God, to follow his ways, and to obey his mitzvot, regulations and rulings ; for if you do, you will live and increase your numbers; and ADONAI your God will bless you in the land you are entering in order to take possession of it.

17 But if your heart turns away, if you refuse to listen, if you are drawn away to prostrate yourselves before other gods and serve them;

18 I am announcing to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not live long in the land you are crossing the Yarden to enter and possess.

19 "I call on heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have presented you with life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore, choose life, so that you will live, you and your descendants,

20 loving ADONAI your God, paying attention to what he says and clinging to him - for that is the purpose of your life! On this depends the length of time you will live in the land ADONAI swore he would give to your ancestors Avraham, Yitz'chak and Ya'akov."

there is much more to Gods Word than a numbering system...
 

rossh

Well-known member
I'm glad yuou don't find the following verses funny:

Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
well sure, but that is Old testament, what has it got to do with following the Jewish Messiah as per the NT ?
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
well sure, but that is Old testament, what has it got to do with following the Jewish Messiah as per the NT ?
According to Jesus, whom YOU follow, not a brushstroke will pass away from the Law until heaven and earth pass away. Last time I looked out my front door, heaven and earth were still around.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
14 On the contrary, the word is very close to you - in your mouth, even in your heart; therefore, you can do it!

15 "Look! I am presenting you today with, on the one hand, life and good; and on the other, death and evil -

16 in that I am ordering you today to love ADONAI your God, to follow his ways, and to obey his mitzvot, regulations and rulings ; for if you do, you will live and increase your numbers; and ADONAI your God will bless you in the land you are entering in order to take possession of it.

17 But if your heart turns away, if you refuse to listen, if you are drawn away to prostrate yourselves before other gods and serve them;

18 I am announcing to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not live long in the land you are crossing the Yarden to enter and possess.

19 "I call on heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have presented you with life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore, choose life, so that you will live, you and your descendants,

20 loving ADONAI your God, paying attention to what he says and clinging to him - for that is the purpose of your life! On this depends the length of time you will live in the land ADONAI swore he would give to your ancestors Avraham, Yitz'chak and Ya'akov."

there is much more to Gods Word than a numbering system...
Of course. The central point of the Torah is obedience. There are, for Jews, curses if we choose not to obey, and blessings if we DO obey. And of course, as I have quoted many times, it is easy to obey, we CAN do so.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Of course. The central point of the Torah is obedience. There are, for Jews, curses if we choose not to obey, and blessings if we DO obey. And of course, as I have quoted many times, it is easy to obey, we CAN do so.
What then is/was the most Important Item for Israel back in the days of greatness ??
The first King was Saul, then David, then Solomon, then Jeroboam, etc: did tall of them " fall from God grace " ?

The birth and death resurrection of Gods flesh and blood Son Yeshua was and is the only way to Salvation destined by God before the beginning..
 

rossh

Well-known member
Of course. The central point of the Torah is obedience. There are, for Jews, curses if we choose not to obey, and blessings if we DO obey. And of course, as I have quoted many times, it is easy to obey, we CAN do so.
yes, but yet again, as with Adam, he proved that man can disobey God. Therein Adam proved the blemish of all mankind after Adam.. we all are inherently sinful by nature... and God can not even " look " upon evil. There is no evil in Heaven, same as there in no pain, nor sickness, nor anger, loss nor sin..
 

rossh

Well-known member
According to Jesus, whom YOU follow, not a brushstroke will pass away from the Law until heaven and earth pass away. Last time I looked out my front door, heaven and earth were still around.
Obviously!! What is the point of that biblical statement, it is Gods Word not your nor mine ? By His flesh and blood Son Yeshua that all our sins re already forgiven if we confess the Messiah.. he alone IS the lamb without blemish who is offered up for all who believe.
 
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